https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80tRGf_nL0g&t=1661s&ab_channel=GregHickman

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what's going on guys greg here and i'm
super pumped for this episode because
i'm actually going to do something a
little bit different and i'm going to
share an interview that i just did with
alex hormozy and he is the author of 100
million offers and i just had a chance
to interview him inside of our free
facebook group by the way if you're not
in that group and you're looking to grow
and systematize your agency by
productizing your services check out the
link in the description because we do
interviews like that and other free
training all the time so be sure to join
that group but because we had a great
conversation talking about how to
basically build a grand slam offer as he
calls it in your digital and or creative
services agency by productizing
systemizing and scaling your impact and
how you can actually go to market then
you definitely want to listen to this
episode it's longer than usual because
of the the nature of the interview so i
hope you enjoy let's just dive right in
alex armosie in the flesh joining us

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today so it was kind of interesting i
posted in the group you know who would
be interested and i was like i wonder
like how many of my people know who you
are i was like there's gonna be some
definitely and it's like the most
engaged thread
in our group like i'm in i'm in i'm in
i'm in so the message is spreading my
friend but guys if you haven't gotten
alex's new book 100 million offers uh
check it out it's on amazon for i think
still 99 cents
on audible and he has a free course at
acquisition.com for slash training i
believe where he takes you through that
content so definitely check it out we're
going to be talking about that in a lot
more today so alex here's how i want to
start this so this group right this
group is people that i would kind of
consider micro agency owners they're
like they're more than freelancers
they've got a little bit of traction
problems lean and mean team
dumb for you services uh some of them
are trying to escape that all together
add-on consulting move into training
some are still rocking the the
quote-unquote traditional agency model
and you've said in multiple of your

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interviews but have never gone deeper on
it i just don't like the agency model
so i'd love to understand have you
unpacked that a little bit um because i
feel like i know where you're gonna take
it and i think i agree but i've never
heard you take that deeper beyond i just
don't really like the agency model so
can you explain what you mean by that
i think the agency models most people
practice it is not a sellable business
you know what i mean i think that's
that's the like if i were to say like
one consolidated statement that is it um
underneath of that there's tons of sub
buckets but that's the that's the
overarching piece underneath of that i
would say i don't like like pure
service-based businesses in general
because if you were to plot things on a
high value on one thing and then how
teachable a skill is on the other
most things that are really teachable
are not valuable things that are very
valuable tend to not be teachable
and so the more you invest in someone
the more flight risk you you suffer from
in a service in a purely service-based
business and this is why most franchises
that are purely service-based don't
achieve nearly the scale that
non-service-based franchises do so if
you look at like the biggest franchises

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out there if you look as from a trend
standpoint they're almost all food based
because
a starbucks coffee is gonna taste like a
starbucks coffee because the machine is
gonna like the beans are gonna taste the
same as long as the temperature's right
and they have the same amount of water
right your sandwich is more or less
gonna be the same because the same
ingredients right but in the service
business for example uh let's say you
were went to a massage parlor it's very
very difficult to standardize a really
good masseuse versus really bad misuse
like they can go through the same
training but you might have an entirely
different outcome right and what ends up
happening is that that person builds a
book of business within your business
and then they walk from your business
and that happens with
virtually any service-based business
whether it's chiropractor trying to get
chiropractors gym owner trying to get
personal trainers like uh salon with
hair stylist it's all the same they're
service right and so
um i don't
like that component of it right which is
why i tend to lean more towards you know
to the extent that we can trying to
productize as many pieces of the service
as we can because then people are loyal
to the product and the brand that's
associated with it rather than the
individual who's uh providing it and
then also when you productize it you can
also break it into individual chunks and
then you can divide out the work between

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people so that it's not one person doing
end to end on the thing right and so
then they're they're more loyal against
the outcome or the product rather than
to the person so that's one number two
is most people who practice agencies
tend to be generalists which is you know
i talk about in the book why i think
that's a terrible idea but like if
you're going to be a generalist you're
competing it's like oh well you know i
mean you're competing against
like the biggest people out there and
and i you absolutely can win in the
general market so despite what i said in
the book in terms of like the riches in
the niches it is absolutely possible
it's just much harder right like right
now i can talk as a business generalist
but because of the tracker that i have
right and so what happens is i think a
lot of people try and get in as a
business generalist but they have no
experience and they have no credibility
and that's really the issue right so
like if you want to compete at general
business coaching for example not that i
have a business coaching company but at
least a business advice company that i
give away for free right then you have
to compete with me
and it's going to be harder if you don't
have context or experience across
multiple industries that have more
relevant experience and so that's that's
the reason like the niching isn't
because niching is special it's just
because it's easier to get really good

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at one thing that is to be really good
at a lot of things and i think that's
like that's the subtext for why niching
makes more sense right and then on top
of that you can far more easily
standardize the product offering so that
you have less variability which then
increases or decreases the operational
drag and increases your margins um it
also allows you to price differently so
that you can compete in a smaller
marketplace and own candidly a more
valuable outcome right because like if
you know ogilvy isn't going to provide
that well first off they wouldn't work
with a local real estate agent but if
they were going to work with a local
real estate agent they wouldn't be able
to provide the same value as somebody
who only does real estate agents and not
only that only does real estate agents
who only sell commercial homes in the
one to five million dollar range because
if you just did that then you know
exactly what the sales process would
look like you know exactly where the
leads should get you know what they
should get worked on you know what the
price per deal is you can price
appropriately and all of that's going to
be optimized and in terms of
productizing what you're going to
deliver again your team is going to know
who the avatar is how you're going to
help them in every aspect of that
process right compared to
uh we market stuff which is really

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really hard it's all custom and it's
hard to be competitive right because
then you're going to get priced just
like everyone else in the marketplace
which is really difficult
to differentiate and as marketers we
should know what that is so it would
make sense to at least start with
ourselves you mentioned the word
productize a bunch of times and it's a
term that we use a lot and at least in
our programs a lot of times what we're
helping our clients do is like figure
out take that that specialty
and start packaging up so that they're
not pure
service based um
but you touched on something that i
haven't really or at least worded it in
a way where you talked about the
chunking of the pieces
and then to delegating that can you can
you expand on that and maybe even touch
on your experience from the early stages
of gym launch or maybe any other
business that you you've seen do this so
i think the first thing that needs to
happen is you have to have a clear
customer journey and so most people
don't even have a customer journey they
have a rough idea what has to happen but
they haven't actually like written it
down so it's like well the first step is
for us as a company to have a shared
understanding like you might think in
your own head that you have a shared
understanding but you probably don't

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right because if i were to ask your
front line employees what does it look
like they probably will mess something
up and you will be horrified
by what they say the client journey is
because you'll be like oh my god that's
not what our client training is and it's
like and you wonder why clients aren't
getting a good experience right and so
it's like first we have to agree upon
this thing everyone's there and it's
like okay now we have to slice up these
things into pieces that will
uh best uh suit the team
uh you know for those specific
you know roles right and so you're gonna
probably have a different person who
does onboarding than somebody who does
client you know account management
versus somebody who does uh the creative
like all of those are different roles
that all might be necessary in the
process that you create now what i just
described is a generalist approach which
would probably not be the right way to
do it is like how can we peel off the
pieces that are the highest margin that
we're the best at because at the end of
the day like everything comes down to
like where do we provide the most value
and who do we provide that value to and
like if we can answer those questions
then business gets a lot easier it's
like well and this is for everybody
who's a generalist who needs to make the
transition like the way that i would do
this and approach this is i would look

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at my entire client base historical and
actual and say which of these clients
were the best to deal with which of
these accounts were the least trouble
and which of these did we make the most
money right and so if you plot those
then you'll start to see that there's a
clump right there's probably going to be
somewhere you made a lot of revenue but
not a lot of profit you have some guys
who are a lot again a lot of revenue but
they're a ton of work but there's going
to be a sweet spot where you have lots
of profit not a lot of work high client
satisfaction and it might be like we're
really good at this one aspect or these
two aspects are really good that we're
really good at and we serve this type of
business and it could either be niched
in terms of there's levels to niching
right you could just say local
businesses or one level below that could
be service-based local businesses or it
could be um
you know what i'm saying here like you
can you can you can try to think slice
and dice that group until you really can
define it well which might be it might
be male founder tech companies whatever
right uh because i'm sure your audience
is really you know varied in terms of
they serve and so you might find out
like tech companies have the budget and
are really willing to spend the money
and don't have a lot of feedback from
creative and they're just like yeah this
is good we needed a logo and that's that

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right um and then you can just that's
what you focus on because the thing is
is like it also becomes you know for
entrepreneurs the biggest asset that we
have in our net worth is going to be our
business and that means that the
business in order for it to be valuable
um it has to be sellable and so a great
book on this is john warlow's book built
to sell i think it's a really good story
if you've read that yep um that kind of
depicts the issue that i think the
actual example is an agency so it's
probably yeah it's like they do logos
yeah
it's really suitable for your audience
yeah yeah awesome
and um and so yeah that just tends to be
the kind of recurring issues they don't
think like business owners because
they're still so fully integrated in the
business and so it's like in terms of
sequence it's like we have to get our
offer right then we have to get our
customer journey right and we have to
slice that up so that other people can
do it so that now we're fully removed
from the delivery then we're still
probably selling depending on the size
of the people you're dealing with but
probably a lot of them are still heavily
involved in the sales and acquisition
and so then it's how do we create you
know a pipeline uh of new business and
that can be whatever way you want you
know you can go paid ads you can go earn
media you can own media you can do

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manual outbound you can do affiliates
you can do word of mouth referrals if
you have a strong a strong back in there
any of those ways you could do but you
have to pick one and so for everybody
who's under a million dollars and you've
heard my content before but i'll just
repeat it again it's one product one
avatar and one channel and that is how
you get from zero to a million that's it
and what most people are doing is lots
of products to lots of avatars on
multiple channels
and failing at all of them miserably and
somehow wondering why right it's because
like you can barely do one thing how are
you expecting to do to serve lots of
different it just doesn't make any sense
it's way too hard and when you say the
channel just to be specific of the ones
you kind of rifled off like
one committing to to manual outbound
would be an example or like if you're
gonna do paid media does that mean like
paid media only on facebook or does that
mean just paid media across all the
channels paint media is a is a single
bucket right and then inside of that
there's obviously you can go pre-roll
youtube ads you can do facebook you do
instagram you can do whatever right
google ads you do craigslist there's a
lot of ads you could run but what i have
found in scaling our companies on paid

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media
and then obviously you know as you know
with our newer stuff we're more focused
on the other three um
but
it's easier to go from facebook to
adding youtube than it is to go from
facebook to cold calling
so it's much easier to just add or
remove a step in the friction of like
having a call funnel yeah
from a different source because you
usually just have to get the friction
right that's really the only variable
with the different traffic sources
whereas with manual lap out it's like
you literally are starting from scratch
and so whatever one you feel like you
are best suited for i would start there
i will say though that from a
sellability a company that is far more
on the
affiliates manual outbound and word of
mouth are going to be much more sellable
entities than uh paid advertising uh
earned media and uh owned you said that
during dinner you you made a comment
i was fortunate enough to have dinner
with you and layla
like a month ago now and
you made the comment of
you know like the next channel that
someone like myself could really focus
on even though it'll take longer to get

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dialed in is the manual outbound because
then you don't have to and i think the
words were you don't have to be a
dancing bear
is that kind of why you think those
three
are more relevant first the sellability
if you look at the biggest companies in
the world almost all of them have a
foundation of the latter three not the
former three it's all about like
referrals being the biggest because it's
the one that is quadratic in nature
right um which is you know candidly the
reason most businesses don't make money
or a lot of money is because they don't
actually provide that much value there's
not a lot of what we would call customer
surplus so i'll give you an example of
what customer surplus is so if if i
deliver ten thousand dollars of value
and i charge ten thousand dollars i will
have a satisfied customer but there will
not be any surplus they won't tell their
friends about it they had fair exchange
right if i charge uh ten thousand
dollars for a hundred thousand value
they'll tell everybody they're not
right and so there's a seesaw of how
much how much virality you want uh in
the product you have now if you look at
again the biggest companies in the world
they would prefer to have zero cost of
acquisition have shitloads of virality
and then deal with monetization later

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that is what most now a lot of them are
funded so they don't have to deal with
this so there is a sweet spot there
right like and you know
i i sit in an interesting position
because a lot of people are trying to
look at what i'm doing with
acquisition.com and they're like
what's the play the real play is i don't
need the money
so that's the magic right it's so uh you
know so i have a huge customer surplus
the reason the book sells a thousand
copies a day right now with no paid ads
is because there's a big surplus right
and so maybe if i like i had a bunch of
people who read the the early copies
before i before i launched it they're
like dude you should charge a hundred
dollars 500 to the book or whatever and
i'm like i probably could have
but i would so much rather trade 99 to
have your goodwill that's far more
valuable to me over the long haul right
and the reality is that if i charge 99
cents uh which is basically nothing
because jeffy b takes takes 65 of the
the 99 um
then uh the likelihood that i get
probably 20 times the people or 100
times the people who read the book um is
significantly higher and that's where
i'm gonna you know i would prefer to
have 100 people who know about the stuff

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and get value then have one person who
gets 500 stuff
right totally
so you made a comment earlier about the
like if i charge 10 000 and you only
make 10 000 like you're probably not
going to go tell anybody about it so in
the book you talk about how to basically
double your rates raise your rates
without having to actually change
anything about the offer and i want you
to talk a little bit about that but then
kind of specifically around that like
the evolution to get to that right
because i know a lot of people in in
this group that are watching this hey
they're definitely not charging enough
they know they're not charging enough
but
some of those other things you talked
about have been preventing them from
solving a specific outcome that would
even allow them to get to a multiple you
know return so like all these things
start stacking on top of each other but
save someone's specialized they're doing
something specific and they're still not
charging enough can you talk to the
path to raising your rates
so the problem is the price is the is
this is the symptom not the cause right
so the cause is that people are not

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providing sufficient value and so the
whole book details how to break down
every problem that your customer is
dealing with a specific customer and
then how to systematically solve each of
those problems so that you can provide
more value once you have provided
significantly more value then you can
raise your prices and then as a result
of raising your prices the price itself
also confers more value to the product
itself which is kind of an interesting
you know dynamic in and of itself um
and so i know that of light what i said
didn't seem contradictory to what i'm
saying right now it's like
i raised my prices at gym launch buy a
lot and i was way ahead of the market
but i also added 250 000 of top line on
average and so the reality is that the
people that i was competing against were
charging between 500 and 5 000
for adding between 500 and 5 000
to the business right i was adding 250
000 and i charged 40.
so i was still way above them but i was
like double or triple or 10 times way
above them in terms of the value that
was provided and that you could verify
on the fact that like the business
exploded right and that's that's the you

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know the reasoning behind it which is
why we didn't have to spend a ton in
advertising like the first year in
business we asked we spent a million
dollars in advertising we did 28 million
you get so much more return by having
some level of customer surplus
i mean sequentially though like you had
gone and personally flown around the
country and
did this one-on-one launching these gyms
so you obviously had
that experience to kind of i think
probably know the value discrepancy yes
and so what i'm hearing correctly some
of you listening might have done this
enough times and already have seen the
type of returns you can get thus
probably instantaneously can raise your
rates but some of you might have to earn
it by actually going above and beyond
getting figuring out what that is and
sequentially raising rates as you start
getting those returns does that sound
accurate yes so let me tell two
different two different ways of getting
there all right the first is that you
massively fix what you're doing
and provide
20 times the value and charge five times
the price that you currently are right
and so if you do that then you'll get
both elements you'll have a massive

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increase in value and you'll be able to
provide that because you're at five
times higher prices so you'll have extra
cash flow to be able to fulfill all
these things that you can do and
oftentimes the value that we provide
takes a one-time investment
but that you can yield you know returns
over and over again so for example a
book is a one-time investment but then i
continue to build returns on that book
over and over and over again so it's
like a lot of times we need to do more
work on the onset than people end up
doing but i think i have a perfect
example for this that's actually that
might be perfectly relevant for this so
one of the one of the the companies that
was using our software um was an agency
all right and this agency owner i would
do one call among the agency owners just
like you know help them with this and
stuff
and every single month
same guy would get on and the same guy
would [ __ ] and moan about his customers
and he admits down he was only working
with real estate agents um and he was
like you know the they they suck they
say that the leads are bad no one wants
to leave and it was the same
conversation over and over
and over and over again and i was like
dude stop your agency and go work the

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leads that you're getting go get your
real estate license go work the leads go
sell some houses and then you'll be able
to help them
and he didn't do it and then finally he
got so fed up that he did it
and then within a month he sold like
seven and a half million in houses right
and i was like
okay
have you learned something about he's
like oh yeah the you know what i was
telling him to do it like there's a
couple different like nuances about how
you had to do that different and so what
happens is everyone just regurgitates
generic advice and they've never done it
and because they've never done it they
don't have the nuances and then the
devil's in the details the money is is
in the is in the tiny differences not
the massive things right and so because
he actually did it i was like now you
can have conviction when you talk to
somebody on the phone you're like dude
i'm working these leads myself like i
just sold two houses this week like it
works and imagine how different the
sales conversation is how different he
feels about the pricing that he's going
to charge and now the product truly is
better and so believe it or not crazy
he's now making way more money

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mind-blowing and so if you think about
this for most people if they start
getting into business where they
actually provide no value they don't
know how to provide value they took a
course they know how to run facebook ads
or or you know they did some sort of
design in the past and they're okay at
it right and the reason they don't make
more money is because they're okay
they're not that good and so we have to
figure out a way to provide far more
value to a very specific avatar make
their entire lives amazing because all
the work that we did ahead of time which
often times is one type of work right
it's just no one's willing to wait six
months or a year to have a business
that's ten times as big but that means
that you have to forego six months to
twelve months right of just learning the
craft to a way deeper level and here's
what's crazy is that when you do that
imagine the story marketers put your
marketer hat on the story that he can
now tell he could say dude i get it i
was so tired of it i worked the damn
leads myself i figured out every one of
the systems and now i'm giving that to
you now they're like oh [ __ ] no one else
has done that right
and when i started the gym business like
i had six gyms my own still didn't feel
secure enough to actually say that i

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could help gym owners then i started
flying out because i wanted to make sure
everyone was getting way more value than
i was charging for and i did 33
turnarounds almost in
in like 18 months
and so i went to we went to 33 different
markets we sat at the front desk we sold
the membership we did everything right
for them we funded the money and so at
that point when i then say hey i just
launched 33 gyms personally over the
last 18 months i can tell you that this
will work in your market
hop on a call it's a story that no one
else can say so it's not an angle it's
not a hook it's just it's true then and
here's the cool thing as soon as i
wanted to transition to the done with
you model i had 33 gyms that i was just
like hey remember that thing i did they
were like yeah i was like do you want to
want me to show you how i did it and
they're like yeah i had 33 high ticket
clients immediately right there
client 34 who gets on the phone i'm like
well here i'll just set you up with one
of the gyms that that's doing it right
now they're like dude just buy it
i didn't need sales i was just like dude
just fine
so
you you alluded to value in that and i

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think in consuming a lot of your content
and then going to research this i
haven't found many people that have
actually defined it yet you yet you have
uh you know we all think it's like oh
like go serve you know how to content
blah blah blah but like you actually put
together an equation for it can you can
you talk through that
yeah and um i think i dealt with the
same issue you do right which is like
you know price is what you pay values
what you get and so everyone can talk
about price all day but no one talks
about value they just say the word value
over and over again there you go the
value
right there's the equation the way that
i came to this was trying to think about
two products that were the same and had
different prices and so i was like why
is this price higher than this and so i
just tried to think about it um and
those are the four buckets that i came
with i think you could probably break
those into further smaller buckets but
those are kind of the big chunks that
exist
and so for the audience the fastest way
that you can provide value is look what
everyone else in the market is doing and
do it in half the time
simplest simplest way like the thing
that people value the most is their time
right and then effort and sacrifice is a

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nod to convenience right effort is what
you what a prospect has to now begin
doing that they don't want to do that
they weren't doing before they started
working with you sacrifice is what they
have to stop doing they want to do that
they no longer get to do as a result of
working with you so it's just two sides
of the same coin so for example you
might be saying ah like i mean i'm
getting them all these leads but now
they're incurring the cost of now i have
to pay someone to work leads we have to
we have to follow up with all these
people i've got all these appointments
like those are costs right and we have
to look at every cost that's going that
they're going to incur as a result of
doing business with us and solutions
create more problems that's always how
it is right so if we can solve more of
these problems that we're creating then
we can create more value in the end
right but back to the time delay the
single thing that i focus on with
virtually every business that you start
working with on the acquisition.com side
the portfolio is how can we decrease the
time delay of money right and so i'll
give you the easy example that you just
gave with the marketing right if i
you know you start working with a
company and you know they swipe the card
and they start working say hey it seems
take 30 days and then effort and
sacrifice you have to give me all this
creative you have to give me access to
all this stuff you have you have to you
have to you have to you have to it's
like man there's a lot of effort and

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sacrifice here and especially if it's
ongoing every week you owe me this every
month you owe me this we have to go on
numbers every week we're gonna have this
cadence blah blah blah like it's all
stuff that now i have to do that i
wasn't doing before right yeah and so
what we try and do is like imagine a
different marketing agency that as soon
as they swiped the card right their
phone rang with a qualified lead right
holy cow different client experience
different impressions different
expectations that immediately get set
and way more good will right off the bat
you just bought yourself three months of
forgiveness from that first phone call
in 30 seconds
so you already know my perceived
likelihood of achieving with through the
roof my buyer's remorse went way down
you know and then the likelihood that
i'm going to ascend to a higher level of
service or buy the next thing triples
right
and so for us we always try and engineer
wins as fast as newly possible for us
with a new client we like to have in the
first seven days so for us the the main
kpi that we will drive as a company is
what a client is going to make in the
first for us it's 14 but like we try and
get in the first seven but what we
collect and is this gym launch

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specifically with all of them oh
we're trying to figure out how we and
and if you're like well my industry is
different think creatively like i don't
you know i mean like i can't meet with
everybody individually but like i
promise you we've made this work with
ever even the long buying cycles like
the mortgages and the and the real
estate guys yeah those are longer buying
cycles but there are still wins that you
can still have emotionally that you can
still deliver in the first seven or 14
days speed is is so valuable to people
especially business owners if i sign a
contract and nothing happens for 30 days
i think the company i'm dealing with
ship immediately i automatically send
that right but if i see activity i see
predictors i see activation points that
are happening then i know so if for us
i'll use the gym example if we know that
we're going to have to pull all these
levers right we're going to change the
the number of people they're taking
procession their price points how we're
gonna sell change their lobby all the
different aspects this is gonna have to
change right
those are all heavy things they're
important but they take time
well i'm going to just peel off the the
fastest easiest win and deliver that in
the first 14 days so that i gain the

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good will to then say now you trust me
enough to do these other things which
will work and actually make even more
money it'll take a little bit of time
but now they believe me and i've bought
myself the goodwill so how that that
mini win i think in the book you talked
about like you you're getting them like
a two thousand dollar sale
in seven days or whatever
is that just a strategy to show them
that they can make 2k doing this but it
isn't necessary is it a piece of what
they would be doing as they roll out
those other things that you said felt
heavier
it can be it can be either
a weight loss example just to give a
totally like a b2c example like we would
give people basically a starvation diet
for their first you know
few weeks even though we knew it wasn't
sustainable and we would do that because
there's tons of research that supports
that people actually have better
long-term weight loss outcomes if they
have a short-term win so if someone
loses 10 pounds in the first two weeks
now they believe me and i'm saying hey
this isn't going to be something we can
do forever i just want to show you that
our stuff works we know what we're doing
we have this in our back pocket this is
to show you we do know what we're doing
but we do think we need to transition to

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this which is going to be slower but
we're going to be able to help you lose
it for good right and so now it's like
but if i said hey it's going to be slow
we're going to help you lose it for good
it's like the seo argument how long am i
going to wait how much trust do i have
to have because like everybody it's like
yeah it's going to take six months for
seo to start working maybe right but
maybe you're just a scam artist from
online that's going to say that and just
collect six months of billings and not
literally do nothing in the way that you
create these early wins is again you
look at the customers that you have had
the most success with and then you say
what did the top 10 of my customers go
through what was different about what
they went through in the beginning
versus what these guys went through in
the beginning and then that becomes at
least preliminarily because you don't
have any baseline those become your
activation points which means that in
the first 30 days these are the one or
two or three things that we want to
deliver to every customer and then all
of the client experience and onboarding
and customer success is geared around
driving those activation points because
we know like this is posthumously
correlated right so we're looking after
the fact that saying well these things
happened here we don't know if all of
them are important but we know that if
we do all of them we'll probably have

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some success and then piece by piece
will discover more and we may be able to
peel some back and be like okay we
thought this was important they don't
care about as much as this but these two
things are the main thing right like in
hubspot when they get a new customer on
they know that they have to get someone
to use five different functionalities in
the crm if they use five different
functionalities or more then the likely
they stick is like forever right but you
got to get them to file right and so i
know that in a different crm world for
uh online trainers because we're
involved in that space too they have to
get their first five clients so they get
five clients they never cancel but they
need five and we have to deliver five as
fast as possible so even if the strategy
that you use to get the first five is
different that you get to get the next
100 if this one happens faster then do
this one first and then earn the trust
to then start this this journey if you
want to go cool show them you can run
paid ads and get them leads so they know
you know what you're talking about and
then start the seo journey makes sense
yeah
dude so you talk about i believe i
forget what you called it maybe it was
the
cycle of price or the price forget which
one it was but

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it was tied to the delivery cube and
i've looked through the book multiple
times to see if i can find where it is
and i'm like at this point i don't know
if it was one of your youtube videos or
because i listen to everything you do
but you talk somewhere about like when
you are identifying how you're going to
deliver the the solution delivery
vehicle of all those problems there's
the ones obviously you want to aim in
totality high value low cost which is
where you know the ability to go to
um information and showing people to
done with you is really strong but
somewhere you said it's okay to have
some high value high cost things
but like probably not more than one or
two
yeah
that's the delivery cube yep yeah it's
page 89.
um
yes and so i'm a big believer in kind of
utilizing the tesla model so yes we talk
about that fairly often here as well
okay yeah so a lot of people get started
trying it like everyone tries to think
about scale before they have value which
is
right before they even know who their
avatar is right and i think that's just
i think it's just silly there's no other

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word for it's just silly you're not it's
just it it's just silly and instead
you'll have way better marketing way
better stories know your avatar better
solve more problems just have way more
you'll just your hands will be you know
you roll your sleeves up you'll get way
more dirty you don't need to actually
worry about this done-for-you thing
being your business everyone has this
fallacy and thinking that like the first
thing they sell is the thing they're
gonna start first their life
it just consider it getting paid to do r
d
that's what it is you're getting paid to
do research and acquiring customers
profitably for done for you is probably
the easiest thing in the entire world
because it's so easy to sell right it is
harder to deliver absolutely but if you
learn how to deliver that because you
should then doing the next level down
and doing done with you or doing two
levels down and doing a complete diy
becomes easier because now you have the
story that works and makes sense it's
like hey we ever done with you clients
that are 20 000 a month but if you want
to use the same system that we use and
just and we'll help you along the way
you can just pay 10 grand one time and
learn the whole system you know or get
certified through us or blah blah blah
right and so
it's way easier to require customers

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with high done for you because most
people and i talked i don't know if i
told this i think i told the story in a
youtube thing but i had a friend who got
laid off he was a chiropractor and he
was like hey man i need to make money i
was like do you want to make money or do
you want to be a chiropractor because i
want to make money i was like cool so
just use the gym launch system so he
just started selling weight loss and not
even doing the chiropractor thing and in
the first uh
month or two months he actually made no
sales and i was like bro what's going on
and he was like dude i'm still trying to
get my offer right because i don't want
to over commit and not be able to
fulfill and i was like how many clients
do that he was like zero i was like why
are we having this discussion i was like
sell the farm give away everything get
people to say yes get people to give you
money and then
we'll have cash flow that we can start
solving problems with right and you have
no idea what your clients want because
you [ __ ] sold anyone yet so like go
sell some stuff and then what happens is
uh once you have all the solutions that
you plan on delivering maybe your first
couple people you deliver everything
right and even if you broke even on that
i'd rather break even with cash flow

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because once i have flow right create
flow monetize flow then add friction so
it's like let's create the flow with a
crazy offer that's what the book's about
right monetize the flow because we can
charge a lot for it because we're gonna
we're gonna go to their house and you
feel like i don't know if that's
sustainable i flew around the country
for a year and a half actually going to
people's gyms and working their front
desk and so people forget that they're
like man i want to do a gym lipstick but
you're not willing to do it alex did so
you got to pick right and so if you want
to get a niche then go work the front
desk go fly out to a salon go fly out to
five salons 10 salons right and learn
the local markets learn the different
nuances learn how different salons work
right and then on your sales calls when
you do decide to make your pivot down to
a more scalable model right you can say
listen 80 of clinics are doing this this
is all horseshit the 20 that drives all
the profit is this that's what i'm going
to help you focus on so then you end up
streaming and stacking everything that
doesn't matter out and just focusing
productizing on the most valuable
highest profit things that you
discovered through the r d that you got
paid to do yes
for some of the newer clients that might
be watching this enter the replay this

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is what we
tell you to do
um so i have a question because
you
in the book you know like you said you
list out all of the things all the
problems that they have and then
identify solutions and you take them to
to the delivery cube what are different
ways which is an amazing exercise
um but something we both
i believe have similar thoughts on is to
sell something upfront that has a
an end date with a clear outcome and
then as you call down sell your upsell
so can you talk about like when someone
has this laundry list of things that
they can do how do you figure out where
to draw that line on what should the
front end be
so you want consumables to be recurring
and you want the one-time things to be
the one-time value right that's the
simple simple statement so i actually
just drew this out yesterday because i
was thinking about this so maybe this
will be some off the you might see some
youtube content on this all right if i'm
building if i'm building recurring
revenue right
then what i want so this is my

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uh my little my little graph here right
you've got you've got physical
digital
and then you've got collateralized and
consumable right and so i i'm just gonna
go i'm gonna super zoom out and then i'm
gonna come back in all right so a simple
consumable would be like toothpaste
right no one here is really on
subscription for toothpaste but a
toothpaste company gets sold by you know
bought by procter again for a zillion
dollars right
and it's because you're still recurring
you're just buying once every month or
whatever right but it is the weakest
type of recurring and it's a physical uh
consumable right a level above that
would be a physical that's
collateralized so razors you buy the
razor and then the consumables are the
razer you buy the printer and the
consumables of the ink cartridge you put
your stuff in storage and then you have
to keep paying for the storage but
there's collateral right they have
something of yours that that they're
that they're paying for these are both
in the physical realm
in the digital realm same thing versus
consumables and uh and things that are
collateralized so the ideal world in

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00:34:00.000 --> 00:35:00.000
terms of business value is to have
something that's purely digital and has
collateral which is why crms are so
valuable because they have all your
payment info all your contacts all your
everything and for you to leave is
really hard because they have collateral
they have your stuff right dropbox has
all your files so hard to leave those
right and so to go to the consumables
that's where what are the things that a
business is going to consume on a on a
regular basis they're going to consume
financial services so they're going to
have a bookkeeper they're going to
consume marketing services so they're
going to have an agency or a media buyer
right and so like for us it's like you
want to sell the system as a one-time
thing and then all the things that the
system consumes as the recurring thing
so you've got the machine and then
you've got inputs and outputs right so
you build the machine for the one time
and then you sell the inputs because
they need more inputs over and over
again once you've helped them build the
machine and then you can price those
according to what the machine that you
have built for them creates and so this
is the biggest question i get all the
time i'm just going to tack it on
because i figure somebody's going to ask
it anyways
my clients are broke they can't afford
what i want to charge well the average
gym owner makes 36 thousand dollars a

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year a little less than that actually
and we charge 42 right and that's our
back-end program front-end program 16.
so we got 16 and then 42. that's a lot
of money and that's 20. that's 42 000
just for the record so that's what they
make more than what they make in a year
that's more than what they make
currently but not more than what they
make once they use the machine that we
have to build so we price based on the
value that we know that our machine is
going to help them produce right and so
it's the same thing where like and this
is why we were able to just crush
everybody who's in the agency world
because they would try and go to gym
owners and sell them
leads or sell them services and they
could never charge more than a thousand
bucks a month because there was so
little margin because gym owners weren't
making any money on the lease that they
had and they couldn't charge what you
know they couldn't they would they would
get priced out over 10 bucks a lead and
they say hey i can't do this anymore
it's 10 bucks lead our guys can spend 50
bucks a lead
because they make so much more money per
customer because we show them how to
sell a high ticket how to set up the
sales room what the offer is supposed to
be we give them all the fulfillment
stuff we show them how to sell
supplements transaction we give them all
the help to do that so that they can
liquidate the cost of acquisition or
make a profit on the acquisition and
sell the back end and so the idea is you

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sell the system right and then the
recurring the down cell the upsell is
going to be the consumables of that
system and so like and just because
jim launch is the only consulting one
that i know of that you're involved in
like in a coaching training consulting
model that done with you what does that
look like from a consumable piece on the
back end then so we worked with agencies
through allen so what they would sell on
the agency front end was they would sell
the system right that's the defined end
thing is it by the end of this so like
what's the clear deliverable so let's
say it's um
salon owners right so it's like okay
salon owners i'm gonna help you double
the average ticket of the person who
walks in the door and five times the ltv
by using our four-step you know
appointment system that xyz and we'll
put physical products in and we'll we'll
show you how to add recurring with the
hair colorings and cuts and whatever
right that's the system once they have
the model then they automatically make
way more money from everything else that
they ever do
awesome that means that we can charge
more cool so let's solve that problem
first so that we can then price what we
want and so then what we sold on the
back end was shows because that's what

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they consume they consume shows that's
what the machine that we built them eats
it eats people walking in the door and
so we have to sell them the people that
it has to eat and so uh on the gym side
what we did uh was slightly different
but same concept is that we would test
we spent about 50 000 a month testing
ads
in
a bunch of markets we had like 10 or 20
markets that would do representative
tests in
um and then when we had the winners we
would just license the winners to
everyone
so for them they knew how to run ads
they had the machine but i would
immediately save them on all of the the
lost ad spend that they would normally
have testing and not getting results and
so if you knew that every single ad that
you had was a winner how valuable would
that be
very and for us it's high margin because
it's media
right so it's 100 gross margins and so
that was one of the things that we had
on the back end in addition to that it's
like what are the other problems right
that are going to come up from uh you
know having this new machine well now
they have to hire more trainers well our
hiring system is going to be on the back
end you have to hire sales people so the

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the sales scripts and the and the ads
for hiring sales people in the back end
you're gonna have to train those people
that's why we have with something that
we call boiler room so that all of the
sales people from all the gyms meet
every morning on a call that we host to
train their sales teams right because
that's something that's consumable
they're gonna have to keep doing over
and over again so it's like what are the
activities in the business that have to
continue to occur as a result of the
system that we sold them and then those
are all the things that we will bundle
and sell on the back end so when people
are like i don't know what i'm going to
sell in the back it's like it means
because you haven't solved any problems
on the front
soft problems on the front there's going
to be problems on the back and you just
get to solve those problems i love that
you obviously talk in the book about
guarantees and i've seen a lot of new
ads out in the marketplace with
guarantees which i'm like oh they read
the book can you talk about like i was
having a conversation with one of my
buddies about this like you can
obviously use a guarantee as like a
sales tool if you're selling via the
phone is that like v1 of rollout is i'm
going to use this as a tactic to get
them over the line if there's an
objection because sometimes there is an
objection we even need to offer a

40
00:39:00.000 --> 00:40:00.000
guarantee but then there's also the
putting it in your marketing
is that the appropriate rollout like
test it on call as a tool and then if
it's working bring it out to the
marketplace like it almost is your offer
if the guarantee can be good enough i
think that there's lots of ways to skin
the cat so i i don't i don't want to
give like a broad sweeping generalized
answer for that i think testing it on
the phone is a good idea and then making
it the offer also works i think there's
two pieces that i i think everyone at
least that i i try to confer or whatever
tell people is that
one
for many people a guarantee is a is a
structured risk it's a risk where you
know all the variables so maybe you need
to test it on the phone for a handful of
people see the results and then measure
but nine times out of ten you're going
to make more money having the guarantee
you will sell more people than you
otherwise would have even minus the
extra returns that you'll have as well
most people though are still so afraid
of making a guarantee that they make the
contingency so so extreme that the
guarantee is worthless right and the
thing is if the guarantee is worthless
it's not as compelling right

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so i try to guarantee things that i'm
almost afraid of guaranteeing and if i'm
afraid that it means they'll get greedy
and if they get greedy it means i'll
make money and so
big picture here's here's just a thought
experiment that i like to demonstrate
the power of it so most of us are in b2b
services who are listening to this i
would imagine and so if you're b2b let's
say that your offer was i'll double your
profit in 30 days
i'll double your business in 30 days
whatever write something crazy right or
i'll pay you twice the amount of money
you paid me back
how difficult would it be to sell that
not at all
and so if anyone is struggling to get
customers think about that as an extreme
example right on the flip side you have
everyone else's stuff which is pay me
maybe get results maybe don't doesn't
really matter i get pdli that's the
that's what most people offer if you
were to boil it down to soup and nuts
right and so the question is is there a
place between extreme a and extreme b
where we could peel off one or two of
these things from the side still have a
really strong guarantee that's very
compelling um and ultimately sell more
and make more now the underlying point
of the entire book that's unspoken which
i think you picked up and a lot of
people picked up is that we were like

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well if i guarantee that what happens if
they don't get the outcome it's like
then fix the product so this was the
book from my knowledge that was wrapped
as a marketing book right
but the book doesn't talk about
marketing at all it's a product it's a
book on product right and so the problem
is people aren't providing value that's
the problem
and that's the basic problem for all the
businesses that don't make money because
you should be able to say a really bold
claim and if you can't say a really bold
claim then solve why you can't say
really bold claim rather than
not making it so i think it's just a
better question which is like how could
we guarantee that they're going to
double their income how could we do that
because if you ask better questions
you'll get better answers rather than
how can we pick people into say thinking
it's a guarantee when it really isn't
yeah because that's not how you create
wealth you create well through value
right and then and that's that like you
can only sell people once and this is
the whole the dan kennedy um most people
get customers to make sales rather than
make sales to get customers right and it
sounds like a minor semantic difference
but it's important because

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most marketers that exist in the in the
information or internet space which is a
lot of people right
they try to get a customer to just make
a sale that's the whole goal for them is
the sale right rather than i'd rather
create the relationship that i can then
have have an ongoing exchange of value
over and over and over again which makes
you unbeatable it's so hard to compete
against a business that that just
consistently provides more value than
they charge for
but people are like well then i need to
lower my price you can increase the
price to value discrepancy by lowering
your price you absolutely can do that
that's what netflix does that's what
dropbox does that's what i mean like
think about nine dollars a month think
about how many things that we charge on
the internet that are charged for more
than nine dollars a month that are way
less viable than netflix
right but for most of us we don't have
tons and tons and tons of funding to be
able to do that and so
the other way of doing it is increasing
the value right and then correspondingly
increasing the price to a certain degree
so you still have a discrepancy between
what you charge and what they get
but it's still far more than what you
currently are doing which is why it's

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like how do i create value solve all the
problems they have and you don't have to
do done for you for all the problems
that's why i created the delivery cube
it's like i give the example groceries
because i think it's such a simple thing
everybody understands if you start
losing weight
susie's got to start buying groceries
differently right well let's think of
all the different ways we could solve
that problem right we could we could
create a calculator that helps our
calculator we could pre-make pdfs that
already have the list for every week we
could we could uh pre-populate an
instacart that already has each week
already pre-loaded she clicks it with
one button we could have uh affiliation
with a meal prep company the first time
we could do a tour with her meet her at
the grocery store and go with her at her
local store how valuable would that be
we could provide tech support during a
period of hours that when everyone goes
grocery shopping we're there to respond
and show and say hey and they can text
us if they're curious about if this can
of soup or this can of soup is the right
can right like we could have call
support we could have you know i mean
all of these things are different ways
of solving the same one problem and so
the idea is we do need to solve every
problem or every perceived problem to
get the sale right and then the business

45
00:44:00.000 --> 00:45:00.000
economics behind it is where we figure
out which of these different ways of
solving the problem provides the most
value and has the most margin for us as
a business and is most scalable
i love it i know we have just a couple
minutes left uh guys again if you
haven't picked up his book yet
amazon you can get on kindle hard copy
he makes literally almost no money on on
any of these things he's doing it
because he's an awesome human being 35
cents my friend 35 cents yeah 30 sorry
35 cents guys 35 cents but uh a couple
just random off the cuff quick question
so since starting acquisition.com right
like you mentioned you'd say you know
companies above 3 million but really
it's more like 5 million
and you have kind of an interesting
dynamic of companies at least from what
you've told me about what types they are
what's been the most like
surprising thing that you've seen from
these owners as you've kind of inserted
yourself into their businesses
the businesses that we work best with
have a clearly defined integrator and
visionary so married couples work really

46
00:45:00.000 --> 00:46:00.000
well or people who have two two partners
that are clearly defined
um they work really well because usually
we just need to fix the model and they
blow up when it's a single founder we
need to help them find that integrator
operator
sometimes they're in the business but
maybe they're not as strong as they
should be so that that tends to take
more time but for most businesses that
are at that three five-ish million we
usually need to figure out a way to make
the lifetime gross profit per customer
higher that's usually which is what's
the next offering you know i mean that
we're going to provide and how are we
going to sell it how are we going to
price how we can deliver on it in a way
that's scalable and why not and that
usually will get someone from you know
it depends on the size of the market but
you know from 5 million to you know 20
or 25 that's usually the next kind of
step for most of those guys so you
mentioned next offer and also to
piggyback up what you said earlier one
product one prospect one channel to get
you to a million pretty sure i saw leila
say on instagram to 10 i could get you
to 10 million so with the front end back
end like the continuity piece do you
consider the continuity more of an
extension of the front end versus like
it's the next offer like when should
someone be adding continuity because i
know like we have a back end program and

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we're obviously sub 3 million we're
above one but like where does it make
sense and is that actually a different
offer it depends on so i would say i
would categorize them so
six ways of increasing lifetime gross
profit per customer right price so you
increase the price decrease the cost get
them to buy more times upsells cross
sales down cells right those are the the
six ways of doing it so if we're
thinking about the back end is either an
upsell across seller down sell i would
say it depends on what the category is
so if we're delivering more of the same
thing then i would consider that a down
cell because it's like downside the
upsell it's like it's consuming the
thing that's going to feed the machine
and if you do that adequately you really
don't have churn because they always
need the thing that feeds the machine
right the upsells which is usually where
we will try and build some sort of
upsell but most times people try and
cross-sell and that is the that is
mistake that is what most entrepreneurs
jump to which is i have a distribution
base i'll sell them something else and
usually that's not the time to do it
because they end up having two companies
and then there's ceo of two companies
and you can't be co2 companies because
if you look at every fortune 500 they're
ceo of one company the only solution is

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elon and he's not actually ceo of any of
them he's the owner and founder and so
there's really no fortune 500 company
that is like yeah i'm ceo of home depot
and
uh dairy queen yeah i mean it's like
that's not but we do that all the time
as entrepreneurs because we think for
some reason if we start in the company
to solve our problems but in reality we
just create double the problems that we
had and we still never advance past the
point of our incompetence which is where
i can tell you this is one of the themes
that i've seen repeated over and over
and over again so
i can drive this one which is you will
make the amount of money based on what
level of entrepreneur you are that's
like level of entrepreneur times
opportunity size that is what that is
with the amount of money that you will
make right and so most people
entrepreneur wise um they'll have a
three million dollar business and
they'll start a second business and then
they'll have two one and a half million
dollar businesses
with less profit
this happens in the brick and mortar
world all the time yeah they have one
location it's really profitable they
start a second location then they start
third location right what happens with
some of these generalist service
providers that they add a different
service but arguably it's a completely

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different business
totally different business exactly and
so until you can really transition to
owner which everyone thinks they are but
the reality is that they just outsource
sales but they're still
cmo they're still ceo they're still ceo
right they still have four hats on and
they think that somehow they're because
they are owners
also that they are owners exclusively
and that is not the reality and so um
for the companies that we're working
with like in the beginning it's like
i'll consolidate so we have focus we
drive the the one channel we maximize
what we have there so we know that we
can put somebody who's in charge of that
channel
then we can take time from the owner to
who's really still chief product officer
right also that hat
and really create the next product offer
and sometimes it takes time you know i
mean like i mean it might take six
months just to get those two things to
happen you know what i mean and that's
where when we try and work with
entrepreneurs we want to have an
extended time horizon which is like a
12-week program is not going to help
someone go from 5 million to 30 million
which is why we take equity in the
companies that we're working with

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because we're looking for people who are
like sometimes you have to take a step
back in order to take three steps
forward and that's just true like if
you're offering six things and you have
to cut five of them because they're not
profitable your revenue will drop you'll
also have to get rid of teammates that
you don't need but now the new business
may be far more profitable i'll give you
one example that might just drive this
home so the first company i took off for
acquisitions.com
had a 1.6 million dollar
um which is small but i really liked the
guy 1.6 million dollar brick-and-mortar
business and they had a 500 000 year
agency all right that was helping this
type of brick-and-mortar business
and so what i told him to do was i hated
the paid of the model
so we killed the business i killed the
500 000 all your business it's making
him money right we killed it and then we
started the new model which is what we
do now which is we own all the locations
and so now we have 10 locations we open
a new location every month and so that
business went from what he was doing
then now 14 months later it's doing 200
000 a week
right but for the first 90 days revenue
went down

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but it's like it's that's why i'm there
too to be like
breathe it's okay
like it's fine like you see where we're
going like you see how things are
getting simpler like you have to get
simpler pare down focus and then we can
have the explosive growth because it's
really easy to do one thing a hundred
times it's very hard to do one thing a
hundred things one time which is what
most people do in their businesses
especially all the custom guys you'll
never sell the business you'll never
scale the business
last question before you tell us again
where we can go for all the free stuff
and and also i think you should share
why you're doing this because i think
it's really awesome but like so again
it's more of a selfish one but like
training coaching space like what do you
feel like we're all missing that like we
need to get right in order to kind of
build something of substance
most people haven't done it
i mean like if we're being super real
most people haven't done the thing that
they're selling they kind of do i mean
how many business coaches are talking
about scaling a business that never
scale to business before they start
you know i mean like that's that's the
real real it's because everyone
everyone's so status driven and everyone
wants to everyone's to appear successful

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before they actually are wants to fake
it till they make it but i'll tell you
if you make it you don't have to fake it
amen and so the whole thing with
acquisition.com is layla and i have
probably taken out 45 million in
dividends out of the businesses over the
last four or five years and the new
chapter i feel like is the the scorecard
is changing for me from revenue and
profit to just kind of like meaning and
things that i that i drive joy from and
so i thought what is the most valuable
thing that i can give the marketplace
besides money now we donate you know we
donated a couple million bucks over the
last two years to charities that we find
meaning in which are usually
education-based but like i believe
education is the thing that's going to
set everyone for free and so i think
that most of us anybody who went to like
formal college was kind of chipped i
think if you can have if you make the
same money after a four year 200 imagine
a four year 200 thousand dollar coaching
program you made the exact same money
afterwards it's ridiculous and no one
calls the scam which is hilarious to me
but anyways so my thought process is can
i give and you know the people who are
teaching business never had a business
like all sorts of stuff right in the
colleges too but the most valuable thing
i can do the marketplace is give all the
the experiences the skills the traits
and the beliefs that have shaped where

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we are now to everyone and i know that
with media i can give that all away for
free at no cost and so the whole idea
with acquisition.com is just give away
more value for free than other people
charge for i mean
that's the that's the strategy and then
hopefully get people from zero to you
know three five million on their own
with no assistance and if you're the
type of person that doesn't need
assistance and was able to use the stuff
that we gave then you'd be a perfect fit
for the type of business that i want to
you know invest in and then help grow to
the next thing because i know that you
won't need the hand holder right and so
you know my works i know that you work
and so as a result we can kind of work
off of shared shared trust and you know
that the downside risk for me is that i
just help a lot of people for free which
i love it man
well
we all appreciate it i know i i
appreciate it guys if you haven't gotten
the book i'll drop links in the thread
below this but definitely download the
book or all three growth hack read the
book while listening to the audiobook at
the same time learn that from alex
himself and you'll read the book a whole
lot faster
thanks again man really appreciate you
no you bet and just for everyone

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00:53:00.000 --> 00:54:00.000
acquisition.com you don't have to opt in
anything slash training yeah slash
training you don't have to opt in
anything you can just click there and if
you see that there's locked portions
because i just haven't made them yet but
yeah you can go there you can watch all
of them there's downloads and everything
you just take them awesome man thanks
again we appreciate you appreciate you
alright
you

