https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khnoJ2zRI2Y&ab_channel=BenPakulski-MuscleIntelligence

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00:00:00.000 --> 00:01:00.000
hey everybody welcome to muscle
intelligence podcast i'm your host ben
pakulski as always framing this podcast
around living your life
in a body that you absolutely love
that's no small task there's a lot of
stuff that goes into that today we're
going to take a little bit of a lateral
shift but i think it's very very
relevant and i
intentionally sought out a conversation
with this guy because he's
incredibly insightful so i had the
incredible opportunity
to fly out to austin texas last week and
connect with a number of different
amazing amazing humans hopefully most of
which we'll get on the podcast
uh one of which has already been on the
podcast dr dan stickler his
significant other michael hamilton both
been on the podcast the past
but today's guest is a world-renowned
expert for helping fitness professionals
scale their business
so if you're someone who's in the
fitness industry whether you're trying
to be a coach whether you are a coach
whether you're a gym owner
or in any way in the sales industry this

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00:01:00.000 --> 00:02:00.000
is ultimately
selling some service today's podcast is
going to be very interesting to you
and alex hermosi joins me today to talk
about his incredibly brilliant
perspective
on helping push people over the edge who
are indecisive about your service
ultimately
if you're doing something good and you
know you have the best intentions
it's still going to take great ability
to persuade and i know some people have
a negative connotation around persuasion
but the reality is most people are
indecisive you know you walk into
starbucks and you can't decide what to
drink
you can't decide what to have for dinner
and then when it comes to making
investment in your body
maybe you don't place that much value on
it or maybe you don't understand the
tremendous
benefit it could have in your life so
alex and i have this amazing dialogue
about how we can use our skills
to help people change their life and
then he's going to teach you this
amazing strategy
and action plan ultimately on how to
sell
people on your service and alex is an
absolute wizard and he's looked at this

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00:02:00.000 --> 00:03:00.000
every way upside down inside out
and it's a pretty complete conversation
alex literally runs you
through what i think will be something
that will be a complete game changer for
all exercise professionals so
whether you're a coach a trainer a
gym owner you're going to want to listen
up you're going to want to take notes
because it's it's a lot
and he literally walks you through an
entire system of how to do this you
could also go and i highly suggest you
do this anyways
go get his book jim launch secrets he's
got another book that he's written
that i'm reading that's mind-blowing so
alex is an incredible author and
incredible contributor to the fitness
industry in this hard time i know a lot
of us are
struggling with getting clients through
the door so if that's something you're
interested in this is going to be
something you're going to want to pay
attention to today's podcast
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opportunities and how to grow the
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mostly

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00:05:00.000 --> 00:06:00.000
listen all the way to the end because we
have some really great stuff
coming at you i believe that coaching
begins with sale
right if you consider yourself a good
coach in my opinion
and getting someone bought in on the
process is just as
if not more important than the process
itself and
you can track how well or how long
a client stays and how well they do
based on the conversations and the
expectations that are set
before they say yes and so
from first contact they're already
making a decision of whether or not you
are good at what you do and so
there are i've noticed there's a lot of
really good coaches who are really bad
at business
actually the vast majority of really
most of us
really good guys in business are not
very good coaches and so it's kind of
this
if you can nail both then you become
unstoppable
but anyways with the with the persuasion
piece the thing that people say
yes to is not typically the thing that
keeps them staying

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and so that's one of the biggest things
that um just i think in the fitness
industry
we mess up is that um i use the analogy
selling
the plane flight instead of the vacation
right
and so what ends up happening especially
when you've got a coach who's
really knowledgeable right um they know
so much
that they just want to like talk about
the things that they like
and forget that the people who are
listening hey don't care
and we can't even don't have context
to understand the words they're saying
anyways right it's like some high level
marketer talking about
the rates and conversion rates and open
rates and and optimizations and like you
know
decreasing page load times and pixels
and like retargeting like all this
like somebody's like i have no idea what
you're saying just tell me i get more
clients
and so to the same degree they're saying
like i just can you just make me look
like this like that's that's what i want
right that's really what we're selling
and so the selling
is the the island right it's maui it's
the vacation
it's not the how we get there it's not

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00:07:00.000 --> 00:08:00.000
the
workouts the periodization counting your
macros the weighing the pictures the
progress pro
the the check-ins like all of that stuff
is
stuff that sounds like work right now
that being said
you do need to set expectations of
what's required of the clients that
they're not in shock
once they get into your program but it
should be more
them understanding that these are the
types of commitments they need to make
rather than the first week we're going
to do this and then and the second phase
of our
metro mesocycle is going to be this and
here's where we're going to start doing
daily undulating periodization and like
the thing is it's like they totally
gloss over and don't care and it sound
hard
um and so i use the story um
of the ham and the and i think i told
you this one when you're yeah
i'll say it again at least my community
value it um
is the ham and the garlic and um
the more i'll walk through the store in
60 seconds so
little boy just gets a dog from his dad
super excited wants to make his dad
proud show him that he's responsible and

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can take care of the dog
dad leaves for work kids playing with
the dog sees that there's ticks on the
dog
kid freaks out he's like oh my god my
dad's gonna think i'm not responsible
like i'm gonna be a failure this is
horrible so he goes to his grandmother
who's taking care of him at home
he says grandmother what do i do the the
dog's got ticks
and she says go give him some garlic you
know he'll eat the garlic and the
texture one he was like okay so he goes
the garlic coat tries to give the the
dog the garlic and the dog you know
moves his nose away he doesn't lose his
head away he doesn't want to eat the
the garlic right and so he goes back the
kid goes back to his grandmother and
he's like grandmother
this isn't working and she says mijo you
have to wrap it in the ham
first and then gave it to the dog he was
like oh
so he wraps it into him goes back the
dog dog eats it you know a couple
minutes later
you know starts the the small the garlic
then words the ticks off and the ticks
start crawling up the wall
the kid's excited the dog's fine dad
comes home everyone lives happily ever
after
the moral of the story is that you give
people what they want
in order to give them what they need and

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so
we have this i think especially as
coaches it's kind of moral superiority
or this feeling that like we
we know so much more and these these
muggles
don't understand the truth the pure
fitness that we're
for knowledge from dropping on them um
when in reality it doesn't matter they
don't care and what we do need to do is
give them the ham
so that over time once we earn their
trust then we can give them the garlic
and at that point they will have ears
that will be ready to listen
and then we can really change their life
but it really takes that first step the
thing is
it's so widely different in terms of the
skill of persuasion
compared to the skill of programming
and uh and
being the practitioner right really
difficult right and i'm sure you when
you're
teaching your coaches there's the
there's the programmatic side which is
the the numbers and the cycles right
but then there's the getting people to
do its side which is the total
psychology side and i think that's
usually the side that really good
coaches

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aren't as good at and that's usually the
side that if done properly
can actually make an amazing persuader
because you're coming from a place of
pure empathy and understanding
and meeting the client where they're at
i would sit
yeah i always say the coaches like you
have to care and when you actually care
about getting some
results you're going to seek a solution
and then it becomes so much more
realistic for them to actually attain
results because if i care about you
putting on 30 pounds of muscle really
losing 30 pounds of fat
i'm going to find a solution and i
actually empathize as you say with like
i actually want this person to get
results and whatever it takes
to do it one of the things
when we're talking about monitors
monetization and making
offers get people to say yes i think
it's understanding what people truly
want right
and so obviously they want the vacation
they want maui
but the next thing that we have to
resolve is their biggest concern which
is that they're going to fail
right that's the biggest concern is that
like i'm sure it works but
i can't do it or it will not work for me
right

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and so the the trump card especially in
an online setting
um it worked it's actually the same for
in person is online
um is that people pay for people to pay
attention
right that is what they're literally
paying for attention
pay for you to pay attention they're
buying it from you and
it's you know for lack of a better
tournaments they're they give a [ __ ]
right they just watch they're paying you
to give a [ __ ]
and so we have always used
accountability as our number one selling
point for any program that we have
because if you sell on the fact that you
are always going to be there to make
adjustments and allow them to mess up
and
personalize it along the way it's
typically far more effective because
then their
their perception of their likelihood of
achievement remember the value equation
which i can hit on um goes through the
roof and by extension
they become more persuaded and believe
that they can actually achieve
it's the first step to them actually
achieving it anyways
what is the value equation so the value

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equations
um a big picture that i put together
uh probably i put it two two years ago
to
to mentally think through how you can
raise prices that was that was the
thought process that kind of started it
um
and it's just there's four variables to
the value equation there's two
on the top of the equation that increase
what someone thinks is valuable
and the second part of the equation is
the two numbers below if it was a
fraction right there's two on top two on
the bottom
[Music]
and these are the things that are the
costs right associated with any kind of
intervention anything any purchase any
service
that someone's buying is going to have
those four variables right
and so the first variable is the dream
outcome is how compelling
how important is the solution or the
dream outcome that the person is trying
to achieve
right if i say i can help you make 100
000 a year compared to
i can help you lose the last 10 pounds
most people
will value a hundred thousand a year

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more than
10 pounds which is why some categories
in general make more money
than others bankers investment bankers
and financiers in general make people
make more money than than weight loss
coaches because they provide
a a skill that is as deemed as more
valuable by the marketplace right
so the actual outcome itself is one of
the four factors of value
that being said there's there's rich
women who who spend twenty five thousand
dollars on
uh on tummy tucks so like right from uh
from achieving the outcome i'm not
saying the vehicle we're gonna use but
just the outcome itself
there are definitely a huge spectrum
there and the spectrum between a five
dollar ebook on stubborn bat
and a tummy tuck which both achieve the
same outcome in the prospect's mind
comes down to the other three variables
so the second piece on the top
side of the equation that increases how
much someone's going to pay
is their perceived likelihood of
achievement it's what the prospect
believes is likely that they're going to
achieve
many people buy things with a low

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perceived likelihood of achievement
like five dollar ebook on some level
they probably don't really think it's
going to help them there but like
they're like maybe i'll get something
from it right whereas if you've been to
a surgeon you're probably far more
likely to believe
that they're going to achieve the
outcome to further dial this in to show
the difference
if i had a plastic surgeon and you were
going to get let's say a facelift just
for example say
would you go to the sturgeon that has
never done this before or done pen
surgeries or did you go to the
surgeons on 10 000 surgeries well 10 000
surgeries right
and what's funny about that is it
probably takes the guy who has 10 000
surgeries less time than the first guy
so it's not a question of how much time
it takes right
and on top of that that guy probably
charges more than the guy who's on his
10th surgery
so it takes him less time and he's
charging more but people are way more
willing to buy that
why because they because their their
perceived likelihood that they're going
to get the result they want
is is much higher and so that's the

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second factor of value which ultimately
will
dictate the price now the things that
are on the bottom side of the equation
are the are the costs that go to the
prospect and
transparently when i started my you know
like marketing and sales career a decade
ago i focused most of my time on the top
side of the equation i wanted to focus
on crazy promises
tons of testimonials that was that was
basically
almost all that i marketed it's just
those two things right
over time when i started looking at the
biggest companies in the world the most
valuable companies in the world
i realized it focused almost all of
their attention on the bottom side of
the equation which was decreasing the
cost of the consumer
making things seamless making things
effortless and so the two variables in
the bottom
first variable um is time delay and so
that's the delay between when you make a
purchase
and where you're going to achieve the
outcome right so in fitness for example
like someone might buy today but they're
not getting a six pack today
they're they're gonna begin the process
that might take two years
to get that six-pack right so there's a
huge time delay right

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the second component of time so this is
like subset
b of time is uh the kind of
instant gratification things that happen
sooner so these are like activation
moments that's when someone loses a pen
size
they haven't achieved their goal uh but
they're they're making progress or they
just
have more energy or they sleep better or
they have a better sex drive or whatever
it is right those are all things that
happen
but they're they're on the way to the
ultimate goal they're not the
main thing so time delay uh is going to
decrease the value it takes two years
versus taking three months
a tummy tuck would if you had recovered
everything people are more willing to do
that
and the last of the four variables um
which kind of leads natural to it is the
effort and sacrifice
and so that's the actual effort that a
prospect has to do on their side
to create the outcome and so in the
fitness example
that would be you know waking up at 4 am
not eating the foods that you like
not drinking not being social being sore
feeling awkward feeling embarrassed that

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you don't know what you're doing
throwing up being nauseous um you know
having to play like
uh buy new clothes all of these things
are meal
being cooking new food buying groceries
differently than you're used to buying
them
you know having your your family not uh
support you all of those things would be
effort and sacrifices that someone has
to do it's when you think about those
four variables together
it's no wonder that when you're selling
fitness no one buys three thousand
dollar packages online or
it's very very rare for them to do that
the only time they do that is when the
other three variables are jacked through
the roof
right people come and buy your muscle
camps because of how
how ridiculous their perceived
likelihood of achievement is how
how valuable you've established you who
you are
the fact that you can do in a short
period of time right and so like now
the perceived value is definitely higher
um for those people but that's because
you also have an enormous a much bigger
audience than a lot of the coaches too
because you can skim the top 0.1 whereas
a lot of them don't even have that size
of an audience um

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but anyway back to the example the
reason that no one buys
a three thousand dollar fitness package
online instead has to
sit with someone on the phone and arm
wrestle them for an
hour you know to get sue's to
pull her card out is is because
all of those variables except for the
dream outcome are stacked against us
so they do want the bikini that's for
sure
that's valuable but perceived likely of
achievement
there's a million reasons they think
they're not going to succeed because
they failed so many times in the past
why is the time going to be different
in terms of time it's going to take
forever and even then it's going to take
some more time
and in terms of effort and sacrifice
they have to give up everything that
they know and love
their lifestyle their way like
everything in order to do that and they
have to do that for a very long time
and so because of that we only have one
of the four value variables on our side
and that's why you have to learn how to
sell really well in order to get
people to give you that kind of money
which is what they need to do that's why
it's difficult
right or more difficult than let's say
buying something on amazon which you buy

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with one click and no salesman
because bottom of the equation it's
immediate
it's effortless there's no there's no
you don't even have to put your
your credit card in or your address and
that's why the big companies netflix
uh uh uber you know what i mean all of
them have just made it's literally like
you push a button and something happens
right if we could push a button and
people got thin it would be amazing we'd
be able to sell that for
zillions of dollars but we're not there
though and so so but when you think
about value in that way for your own
business and it
i think it makes you think more
creatively about the other part the
other variables that you can change
to make the service more valuable and
different well that man so
there's so much value in that i want to
focus first on the you know the dream
come true scenario the dream outcome
right so
getting clarity on that in the fitness
industry
may not be easy so what you said was
there's this whole this whole slew of
pains we're going to overcome and then
the ultimate
dream come true let's just walk through
your kind of your solution there
are your thought process as far as like

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how we start to define
what how we can maybe stack it in their
brain as far as how like how do we know
what their what their
dream vacation is or their dream come
true scenario is um how do we get
clarity on that and then how do we
build the va the perceived value of that
thing can we build the perceived value
of that thing in the brain
or is it just kind of fixed based on
what they believe to
um to exist so we use an acronym called
closer and that's how i've taught
fitness professionals to sell for i mean
even my own sales teams when i had my
gyms i mean i've just used the same
framework because it's simple and
everyone understands it
um and i think it's it's going to answer
the question in a
more creative way right so the first
thing we do is we have to clarify why
someone's there
right because at the end of the day you
can't cure cancer so you can't
can't give someone a cure until they
admit they have cancer right you have to
you have to get someone to admit that
they have a problem
and that's where you get into the
situation where as a counter example
when someone gets the phone they're like
ah you know i was just
hooking around i kind of want to see
what your thing was all about right
there that's actually an obstacle that's

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00:21:00.000 --> 00:22:00.000
coming up before you even got to
trying to close them right that's where
we ask more clarifying questions so like
well i'm assuming that you don't just
hop on calls all day there's probably
something you're trying to achieve like
what's the goal what do you want to have
happen
right so we'd ask more clarifying
questions c closer it's an acronym
until she's eventually like or he's
eventually like you know
i need to lose some weight like got it
so now we've we've isolated something
and then l is the next one so we label
that the problem so we ask these
clarifying questions
and then we repeat back to them so that
we can really solidify this problem so
like
just so i understand you're currently at
x you'd like to get to y
and you're not happy because you're not
there am i understanding that right
yes right now we have agreement that
they have a problem
now we can start like walking down the
path of finding the solution for them
but we're not going to start getting to
the solution yet because they still
don't trust us yet
so the next part of this is oh which is
where we overview their past experiences
now this is important because when we're
thinking about the perceived likelihood
of achievement
when we're thinking about the time
effort and sacrifice we're going to need

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to know what they've done
so we can know what their limiting
beliefs are so that when we actually
create our pitch which is going to be
the next step
we're going to cater to what they're
giving us as ammunition so we're going
to overview their past experiences
we use something they call for a four
question pain cycle which is what have
you done in the past
how'd that work for you um
how long did it work for you um and what
else have you done
right and so the reason that we always
know this is that if the person's on the
phone with you inherently you have the
advantage because
we already know they're satisfied so we
already know that what they've been
doing
at this point is not working otherwise
they would just be in their happy
marriage and not be here on the phone
with us
right i'm saying marriage is
yeah um and so i mean i'll give you an
example i had a girl who came in this is
probably five years ago she walked into
my office and she was like
well i already have a personal trainer
and i was like then why aren't you with
him right now
she's like well she's like well i guess
i haven't been achieving
what i want i'm like okay so you're not
achieving the results you want what do

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00:23:00.000 --> 00:24:00.000
you want
and then all of a sudden i could have
the real conversation because i had to
get her to admit that she wasn't happy
with the thing that she had
right um as soon as we're doing the past
experiences
i tried weight watchers i tried shakes i
tried you know i tried cutting calories
it didn't work for me
right um and the thing is is that
whenever they're going through this
stuff you cannot disagree with them
because it's their
subjective experience you're like i
totally understand that was probably
really frustrating
and and while you're doing this you're
not teaching anything you're just
listening
and so once you kind of soak up and
extract every single painful experience
they've had they're like
i really think i understand why this is
so important to you
they're like oh okay now we've increased
the urgency level
and why it's more important to them and
we're like okay cool so do you mind if i
tell you a little about the program
and they're like yes and so now they've
actually invited us to tell them about
programmer they're saying well
let me just start talking at you because
up to this point we've literally only
asked
clarifying questions labeled them with a
problem that we believe we can solve
sucked out all the information of all
their painful experiences so we

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understand a track record
and now when we begin our pitch we're
going to hit the same three things that
we always hit which is going to be
fitness
nutrition and accountability right which
virtually every coach
in fitness is selling those three things
the difference is
what we are selling within those buckets
right that's a different like fitness
nutrition accountability
happens for a personal trainer it
happens for a boot camp it happens for
an online coach it's the same three
things
right it's just how we do it is
different so
fitness wise if you're at a gym it'd be
like well you're gonna work out here
with us
you know four days a week like and this
is where
as we're explaining it we're gonna say
that then we're gonna just decrease
all of the costs right so it's like so
all you got to do is
show up all right if you just if you
just get here we'll take care of the
rest
we'll set up your workouts we'll exp
like you're going to have a sheet that
we're going to print out for you and you
just have to follow instructions as long
as you can read
you can do this because we're going to
be with you every step of the way does
that make sense
my voice goes up yeah yes awesome so
we've got one out of three down

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second is gonna be nutrition right so
we're like okay listen big picture
and when we go through each of these
points i find it useful to have
stories uh when someone seems like
they're kind of not getting it
right uh because a lot of people don't
understand anything and they're not very
good listeners and they're thinking
about their kids and they're drop
cleaning and the thing they got to pick
up so like sometimes you don't have
someone's complete attention
you have to drag them back um so it's
like okay so nutrition wise
like obviously what you've been doing
has been working for you now you did
weight watchers
you saw some results but then you gained
back you any idea why you gained it back
they're gonna probably say something the
extent of well i couldn't stick with it
or i fell off
right it's just like everything like
cool so do you think it'd be important
to have something that you could stick
with for good so that you don't have to
like
lose weight because listen anybody need
to lose weight just stop eating and you
lose weight but that's not the point
right
right okay cool so you want to have a
sustainable solution that can work in
the long run
right right okay cool so um
do you feel like you need to have
motivational would you have a
do you feel like you like you've got
like the motivation to watch that you're

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like all right
i'm going to do this i'm going to watch
crazy knit i mean right now i'm going to
do this and
you flake out do you ever have that
issue and they're like no like right
because you like gritsnap
right so we need to do is make this so
easy that you actually enjoy it
because if you enjoy it it's not
something that takes any motivation or
effort at all
because you look forward to it does that
make sense yes
and that's exactly where we're going to
structure nutrition notice i didn't put
my protein i didn't talk about calories
i didn't talk like all we're doing is
giving them a story of what it's going
to feel like they're going to say yes
that's what i want great then we move on
to the third point
and so at the end of the day i could
make you the perfect nutrition plan and
perfect
you know workout but if you don't do it
nothing's going to happen right
right okay so here's how we're going to
try and
guarantee that you don't fall on track
you don't know how how
it's like we're going to be with you
every single step of the way so how
we're going to do this
you're going to be in a group of peers
so we're going to use three different
types of accountability
social accountability which just means
you're going to be with people who are
just like you who are going through this

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with you so you feel like you've got
people walking with your shoulder and
shoulder
you're also going to have our alumni
people who've already through it
entering you helping you out
and then on top of that you're gonna
have expert accountability from someone
who's done this with a thousand other
clients all right you're gonna have my
cell phone 24 hours a day
except for weekends my wife does like me
on saturdays besides that if you have
any issues you text me
all right so if you have issues with the
grocery store you're not sure to eat at
your daughter's birthday party or you
are you know you know what you just
you're just staring at ben and jerry's
in the fridge even until your husband
throw it out you just want to do it
any of those situations that's what
we're here for and that's why we have
such a high success rate right and the
reason and then at that point
we'd probably transition into whatever
the offer was going to be because it's
like
so fitness wise you can work out here or
i said that as a workout i was doing
coaching they'd be like then we need to
make this training sustainable i could
use that same netflix story for that
as well we need to make it so you
actually look forward to doing it rather
than
you know dread doing it do you ever like
and with a food when you could do a
different extraordinary

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story like hey it's really hard for you
to not uh to eat cake you're like no
it's not hard for me to eat cake it's
like right
so all we have to do is make you
something that you actually enjoy and
look forward to and then you won't need
any willpower
right because you only have so much
willpower so all we have to do is just
eliminate the willpower from the things
that you're doing
so you can be successful and so once
people kind of like understand that then
they're like oh this
this can actually work for me so i'm
going as i'm doing this i'm increasing
the perceived likelihood of achievement
i'm decreasing their time for their
their sacrifice at least time i'm going
to set realistic expectations
but with the other two i'm slowly
increasing these other three variables
so that now when i make the offer and
i'm gonna make a compelling offer
it's gonna be more likely to say yes and
so from that we're gonna be like well do
you wanna hear
uh like you know where do you want to go
from here usually they'll ask well how
does this work you know
what's the payment they'll ask you to
tell them
ah well it's pretty stressful you know
um it's 99 bucks a week and given what
you told me
you need to lose 40 pounds we like to
lose a pound a week because you didn't
want to gain a background because we
could do it
in 10 weeks but you're going to

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definitely gain it back and guarantee
you want to do that
okay so it'll take us probably 40 weeks
to get there but i'll guarantee that you
get there
and so that means it's 99.4 so it's 4
000 right
minus whatever 40 so 39 39.60
right but when you pay this today
you know that you're going to be there
because if you're not there by the end
of that time
i'll continue to work with you for free
fair enough
create an offer good and then at that
point we start stepping down
um and usually either either the bulk
and this is something for anybody who's
in fitness
i have a podcast about this but you want
the gasp
you want them to grasp at the price i'm
like
too much yes you want them to gasp
because there's going to be twenty
percent they're going to say yes and he
drew their card and you'd be like holy
[ __ ] that was awesome
but the 80 who don't which everybody
needs to prepare for is that you need to
expect the gasp and shoot for the gasp

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and if i can rewire everyone who's
listening to this
if you can do that then you take your
fear away you're going for the gasp
right you're going for the gas
but what a gas does is it means that
you've now ripped off the price anchor
of what they thought it was going to be
even in that realm and they start
rationalizing in their head without even
saying well i guess it could be that
because i didn't want to do this but
like
i mean four thousand dollars that could
be you know like they start answering
well do you know how most people do it
just to save some money say
yes yes i do that i do want to know it's
like well if you want
a lot of people just pre-pay and they
save twenty percent so it saves
six hundred bucks do you wanna do that
and either say yes or no and you're like
you know what how about this why don't
you put half down
and then it's only gonna be 34 or
whatever you know whatever half that
you know is going to be per week and
that's only five bucks a week fair
enough
and so each time as we go down we just
make we make a concession and we say
fair enough
make a concession fair enough and the
things that's really hard for people
in any kind of negotiation because

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people are very reciprocal in nature if
you give some someone to give someone
something to someone they want to
reciprocate
right and so you say you know what what
if we do this instead
fair enough and you're not saying does
it sound amazing to sound like the best
program of your life
you just say does that sound fair and
let me say and you're like oh
yeah that's fair and so by getting the
yes from fair then you're like
let's knock out the paperwork and you
start it and so as soon as you do that
then it makes the transition to the
clothes a lot easier because a lot of
people don't know how to close
they get super awkward and choked up and
so
you just stop they ask you how the
details work you explain listen
what i think is gonna be best fit for
you is this xyz it's giving you the
fitness nutrition capability like i told
you
you're gonna be working with me
specifically as your coach if you're
selling if you have somebody else and
it's you know you're gonna be working
with johnny he's amazing
which is actually better sometimes
because you can edify them and they're
like well i can't talk to johnny it's
like was cause johnny
wouldn't you want johnny to not be
talking to new customers all day but
actually spending
all the time and attention on you as a
client that's exactly why i'm here to

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00:32:00.000 --> 00:33:00.000
talk like i'm kind of his gatekeeper
does that make sense
so like you can always get around that
kind of stuff right and it sounds like
everyone's going to be everyone's going
to be taking
vigorous notes on this because you know
that that process right there is like
it's almost impossible it sounds like
it's almost impossible to say no but
before we i know we've gone through most
of the closer
uh acronym before we do that any comment
in your experience any common objections
and
um does that not usually come until you
obviously get into the pricing and
are you going to go through some of this
yeah so
one of the things that in my opinion if
you sell
very very well a lot of times you will
not
experience a lot and the offer is very
good not experience a tremendous amount
of obstacles so um over when i got
better and better and better at selling
i got fewer fewer obstacles you'd think
it was the reverse like i got better and
better at overcoming obstacles but in
fact
most of us most of it happened before
the sale and so i like to think of it a
lot like lawyers
lawyers don't ask questions and trials

34
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that they don't already know the answers
to
and if i don't feel like someone is sold
i will continue to try and find what the
thing that they're hung up on is before
i bring up price
and so that takes and that takes pattern
recognition and that takes that just
takes volume just like
you know a client's two weeks into uh
you know learning how to squat and their
forms a little shaky and they're like
why don't i squat like you
for every fitness professional like i've
been doing this for 10 years like
obviously i'm i've got a lot more time
under the bar
but for some reason fitness
professionals make this belief
or don't connect that sales is a skill
just as much as squatting is
it's the same thing it's just reps right
and so if you're a little bit shaky
that's okay
you're going to recognize the pattern
you're going to grease the groove the
same exact way just like you know how to
recover from a squat that's
a little bit crappy and you can almost
do it subconsciously without thinking
the same thing happens in a sale you'll
start noticing
patterns and tonality you'll start
noticing people will give you a quick
yes when you know that they're that you
need to confront whatever that question
was
and dig deeper and then to take some
time and you'll start recognizing those
things which why recording all your

35
00:34:00.000 --> 00:35:00.000
sales is really important
if you're virtual or online it's super
easy you just record every sales call
and i like to actually start by saying
hey i just want to let you know this was
recorded and this is just because we
take notes your coaches can be taking
notes off our conversation
and we also use it for training so we
have new interns in one they can
understand
have a client intake uh is that okay
sure
and if they're like well no it's like
well then honestly i would run the other
way from any company that doesn't record
these conversations because
it's a not compliant um but b it means
they don't even care what your answers
are
they're like oh okay you know and then
all of a sudden you can you can get into
it
right um in terms of explaining so if
we're in the closer c
clarify l label o over either past s
sell or vacation which is the three
things we've just went over
e is going to be explained away their
concerns right which is going to be
obstacles right only three a lot of
threes right
there's only three there's price there's
decision maker
and there's stall right uh price is oh
my god i can't afford that that's my
budget i have to check my finances all

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00:35:00.000 --> 00:36:00.000
of that kind of stuff
uh stall is i need to think about it i
don't make decisions on the first
meeting i'm not sure blah blah blah that
kind of stuff anything that's like i'm
not going to make the decision right now
and then third is going to be
decision maker which is i need to talk
to my spouse i don't make decisions over
a hundred dollars we have an agreement
right all of uh all of those types of
things and so
instead of giving you like 100 drills on
each of these right now
um the first thing is from a pure
theoretical perspective if there's ever
something that you should memorize
in sales it's explaining away these
concerns
so when you're having these sales
conversations
my opinion just having a question-based
framework to think through
is especially if you if you've
experienced and you're doing this face
to face you're not going to be reading
the script right
and so just understanding what you're
kind of your benchmarks or your your
come home points
that you need to hit your milestones on
the way to getting the clothes
it's just understanding those questions
i have to clarify they're there label
them with a problem
overview their past experiences get them

37
00:36:00.000 --> 00:37:00.000
in pain and then
ask them for permission and then sell
the vacation and then
now we're in explaining the concerns
fundamentally we just have to
for price get them to
acknowledge that there is a value
discrepancy right and which means they
don't value what we're talking about
enough
and so to break anyone's belief who's
listening if you were giving them a
ferrari that was brand new for five
thousand dollars
that was what you were selling them do
you think that they would be able to
find the money even if they didn't do
you think they would find the money
yeah right of course
if you made the value sufficient not
only even if they didn't have money they
would
be able to find the money which is why i
think that you should approach every
sale
like it is closable right i know that uh
you know jordan belfort
will foster one of his things is like
it'll help you close 100 of people who
are close the ball
the thing is you don't know who is and
who isn't and so
it's useful in theory but not in pract

38
00:37:00.000 --> 00:38:00.000
in my opinion it's in practice
you can't go into it because you don't
know who's closable who isn't
and so in my opinion you should treat
every sale like a perfect
rep is that you're always going to meet
with full tonality you're going to
always show your best always have your
energy
up and always follow this process
because if you do it you'll get better
if you do not follow this process
consistently you'll never get better at
selling because you don't practice the
same
form it's the same thing as exercise
right right
and so with price all we're doing is
talking about
value and so it's really painting more
of the picture the vacation
decreasing the time effort and sacrifice
and increasing the urgency that they
need to use to make the decision
right just been struggling this forever
they're like
oh i mean do you think that it's not
worth because then you can start
painting a fixture
uh there's there's positive future
pacing there's also negative future pace
well if you keep going the way that you
have birth you've been gaining five
pounds a year for the last six years
so five years from now you said you're

39
00:38:00.000 --> 00:39:00.000
220 no what happens if you're
[Music]
and you and if you are used to having a
no
you don't freak out because you're an
experienced salesperson you can keep
your tonality of empathy and genuine
concern
because you're really having to meet
this person so that you can get them to
see
why their beliefs is wrong you can't
tell them the wrong you have to ask
questions so that they can come to that
conclusion because ultimately they have
to make the decision otherwise they're
not going to change and as a coach
you need them to be convicted that
they're going to change right so you
have to point out
the clear uh poor beliefs that they have
you have to do that in the form of
questions right of
how like do you think that for your kids
it's good that
like would you want them to have a good
example
is that important to you like well of
course it's important to me it's like
do you do you think your kids are worth
it because you know
if you're in an airplane you put you
first you put your your smackdown before
you bring kids
right and so right now and this is where
you go back to the overview in the past
pains
and you can use that as ammunition to
keep increasing value and reminding them

40
00:39:00.000 --> 00:40:00.000
of why it's so
important that's that's price with
um with uh stalls
it's going to be you know i need to
think about it etc the biggest thing
with stahls is simply getting someone to
confront the decision
and the reason people like making
decisions because they don't like making
mistakes
people are fine making decisions they
just like making mistakes and so it's
fear that gets people to not make the
decision and so
our goal is to simply give them the
decision-making variables to make the
decision because they just don't know
how
and so my always first response to this
what's your main concern so like well i
need to think about it we're like
totally what's being concerned it's like
i'm not even
i'm not even acknowledging that you're
saying you need to think about it
what's your main concern sometimes you'd
be surprised it's like you know what
four days a week seems like a lot well
it's like we start with three days and
then we can go up from there fair enough
they're like oh
okay well then yeah sure sometimes it's
minor sometimes it's
why don't make decisions and then they
start to escalate that's where you need
to de-escalate
you're like totally understand so

41
00:40:00.000 --> 00:41:00.000
in terms of making the decision what do
you think the main variables are going
to be
right and we already know they have to
believe the product's going to work they
want to they want to work with us and
they believe in the company right those
are the threats
right so it's like do you believe that
if you work with me you'd be closer to
your goal than if you didn't yes or no
yes right question is do you want to
work with me
fair question right it might be like yes
or no
right and then finally do you think that
we're a legit company that's going to be
here
in in 12 months you're not just handing
money to a stranger right
yes okay then let's do it right and then
if you want that's where i would just
tack on some sort of guarantee to push
them over the edge because they're
afraid
that's a that's where you push on it's
like you know what i'll tell you what
if you aren't any way to satisfy the
first six weeks i'll give you the money
back
all right i'm only doing this because i
just know that you're not going to pay i
always include
a money-back guarantee purely on
satisfaction you don't know how many
times i've given
that uh that guarantee back no two

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and that actually was my actual stat i
had two people asked me for a money-back
guarantee
um and i closed zillion people who are
on the edge just by giving it so if you
don't have a guarantee you should
the third is going to be the um
[Music]
spouse so thank you the spouse this is
one of the hardest ones to overcome
because fundamentally they're saying
they don't have the decision-making
power
and so you have to do is rely on past
agreements
to to infer that they did have
decision-making power all along they
just didn't know it all right so the
first thing we ask is the easy one
because one out of three will just say
yes and you can knock it out
like hey well i mean and if this is if
you have like a more alpha person that
you're talking to
it's like well i mean what if your wife
says no if she doesn't give you
permission
permission right for that word in there
like a child um
and they're like well i mean i'd do it
anyways it's like right
let's just knock it out and then just
boom overcome it
now if they say well then i wouldn't be
able to do it it's like well then well

43
00:42:00.000 --> 00:43:00.000
let me ask you a question
does your husband know that you're
dissatisfied with how you currently look
and feel
yes do you think he approves of that
how you look and feel do you think he
approves of how you're feeling about
this is he happy that you feel this way
no then why would he disapprove of
something that you're doing
to fix that that he already doesn't
approve of it
and so it's it's relying on past
agreements to extrapolate into the
current situation
right and then finally we'll hit him
with a uh
um hey sometimes it's better to ask for
forgiveness than permission right
um and so that's like if they're like
kind of on the edge we'll just knock
them over
and stuff being under the third and
that's a three-step process that we use
for almost
every spouse overcome and it works very
well
i mean is this all in the gym launch
secrets book it's in the book it's in
all of our trainings yep
yeah this is i mean if you just just
script that out
put it on your desk i mean right

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00:43:00.000 --> 00:44:00.000
like you've just come out you just
overcome everyone's uh
objections to every sales pitch in the
world ultimately especially the fitness
realm and i think a lot of fitness
people are gonna
leverage this and ultimately help a lot
of people because i think sometimes
sales comes across as like i don't want
to do that i don't want to
be pushy but the end of the day we're so
indecisive people just don't know what
they want they don't know what they
don't want
they need somebody to take them by the
horns and go hey man you need this
and when they're done they're going to
thank you sometimes it's like i'm just
going to push you off the fence because
you're not going to get off on your own
most people are just lazy indecisive and
honestly as you say don't believe in
themself whereas me if i'm a coach and
i'm saying hey
i'm telling you if you follow this
you'll get that
um i mean why not you know my belief i'm
100 confident i'm going to get your
results so let's do this
one of the stories that i tell around
accountability um so i have a story for
each of these right one is the netflix
story the other is
you know eating cake story and the third
is um the cake is nutrition
netflix's account is uh is uh for the

45
00:44:00.000 --> 00:45:00.000
workouts like if you look forward to you
like it you'll do it right
the third is for accountability um i say
hey
you know when you were a kid right did
you ever um you ever complained about
brushing your teeth you're like i don't
want to brush my teeth right when you're
really young
right of course right many of us did but
what happened
your parents were like johnny go here go
to go to the bathroom
and go to bed right and you did that you
did it over and over and over again
and do you brush your teeth now they're
like well yeah like
right and so what that was is in the
beginning you needed
external motivation and accountability
and eventually became internal
all right that's the goal of this whole
program is that in the beginning you're
going to need on
rely on me that's okay that's what i'm
here for right i
i'll i'll pull you in the beginning and
then eventually there'll be a flip and
then at that point
i'll be behind you and just be blowing
and your sales will start
setting and you'll be off and running
right but it's just that transition is
just getting you off the ground right
and that's the point of the account
right so like each of those when we tell
those stories people understand it
right because you know alumni and groups

46
00:45:00.000 --> 00:46:00.000
and one-on-one tech thing those are
features not benefits right
but the story illustrates the outcome
and that's why it's important to tell
the story with those little things in
this 30 seconds just like
it's 30 seconds to tell the story but
then it resonates
but um the one thing that i have to just
say overall is that the number one
factor
that will that will influence your
closing rate
is your tonality it's how you say the
words
it's not words you say and so to the
same degree i could give you chris
rock's
stand-up comedian script and you get on
stage and you
bomb because it's all about the delivery
and so there's two ways to get your
delivery to be perfect
one is to train yourself the other is to
trick yourself
so it takes time it takes reps to train
tonality
where where are we going to lower our
voice so that they know that what we're
saying right now is really important
or where are we going to raise our voice
at the end so that you think i'm asking
you a question
but i'm not a but by doing that there's

47
00:46:00.000 --> 00:47:00.000
these subtle
internalities of these tonalities that
communicate
just as much if not more than the words
you're saying the words are talking to
the logical brain
the tone is talking to the emotional
brain which is making the decisions
and so one you can train yourself to
understand the tonality that you need to
go through at different points
right like when you're when you're
making the clothes i'm like fair enough
raised my voice seemed unthreatening i
feel like i just made a concession
and so i could say apples and potatoes
and they know that i'm asking the
question that they're supposed to say
yes to by how i said it
right and so it's not just the words
it's learning how to say the words
and so when you can train them which you
should we practice an hour a day for our
teams right
but on the flip side you can trick
yourself and the way that you trick
yourself
i just use prick and train because it's
easy to remember but it's not really
tricky
right is what you do is you read the
testimonials that you have
from the clients that you've worked with
you read them out loud you don't read
them to yourself and i'm i'm telling you
you read them out loud before you get on
the phone call with the new prospect

48
00:47:00.000 --> 00:48:00.000
if you read 10 or 15 testimonials and
you realize the impact that you make in
people's lives
you will get on the phone with full
conviction when you have full conviction
your tonality will always be perfect
where you get in troubles when you just
get off the phone with somebody who's
upset
they didn't have a good experience for
whatever reason and then all of a sudden
you bring that into the sale
right and of course you're not going to
close because you have no conviction and
then your tonality is off because on
some level you're saying
i'm going to help you but your tonality
since no i'm not
and so that's where people get lost in
the sale they're like i said everything
the way you said it's like you didn't
say the way i said you said the words
and that's what's different that's where
that's what separates people who are you
know really good and professionals from
people who are
just starting out but the fastest way it
gets from starting out to closing a
really high percentage is to be
convicted
i'm sure some of you guys have seen
coaches who are selling mlm
you know products and have no idea what
they're talking about but they sell like
crazy
why because they believe it and most
people
believe it or not are not do not have

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00:48:00.000 --> 00:49:00.000
malicious intentions they are
good-natured and they are selling what
they believe because that probably has
worked for them
they don't believe in the logical
fallacy of that just because it worked
for you doesn't mean for everyone but
that's okay that's where they're at
right now we don't need to
you know throw throw rocks at them
instead let's look at what they're doing
better than us
and see if we can hack that into using
it as a weapon for us to help more
people
so just to close the closer loop i don't
know that you you um finished the r
yeah yeah so the r is and the reason i
always i feel like i always almost
forget it is the r
actually ended up adding after the fact
because closed was the acronym
the r is reinforced the decision and so
this is kind of right after the sale
happens
people make a decision whether or not
they like you the company and they're
going to continue to buy from you and
they're making their first impression
the first 48 hours after the sale
and so you can lament that or you can
take advantage of that for your
i mean to your advantage right and so uh
by reinforcing the decision that's by
doing
soft touches so that's send them a
personalized video saying hey i'm super
excited to work with you and if it's a

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coach and you have a salesman who's
separate
the coach send the video uh you could
take a picture of the zoom call we have
them you know doing thumbs up
and then put a handwritten card like
screenshot it put it on a card and send
it there are apps that do that for two
bucks called felt
uh felt card app uh anyways you can do
that it's these are easy little things
you can send them
a t-shirt and swag and the reason that's
important is because you need to make an
identity shift
you need them to start thinking i'm no
longer this overweight person i'm now
somebody who's
who is a person who's beginning to
prioritize
their fitness and health and if you can
get them to shift their identity
habits come as a result and i think you
and i briefly talked when you're at my
house
about how it's so much harder to create
habits than it is someone's identity
when someone changes their identity then
the natural habits that would go
in alignment with that identity they do
they do on their own
so it's more important for us as coaches
this is my you know my belief
is that if we can get someone to make an
identity shift then the rest of it's
downhill compared to trying to get
somebody who identifies as somebody's
overweight and always fails
to then try and get them to force

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themselves or willpower themselves
through which they'll never succeed
because we only have a finite amount of
incredible man so you started in this
industry
uh just owning your own gym is that
where it started and you've built this
you know your story is pretty awesome
i'd love to have you share it because i
think
you know not that you need to establish
credibility at this point but i think
it'd be super interesting for people to
hear your journey
how it went from i'm going to guess as a
personal trainer and your own gemstone
than being
a very successful entrepreneur helping
thousands and thousands of coaches
around the world
so um i had a an atypical path so i
started as a management consultant
uh so i worked space cyber intelligence
for the military for two years i hated
it saved enough money to start my first
gym when i
uh which was 60 thousand dollars one
more time space
cyber intelligence space cyber and
intelligence sorry
um so it was a that was the three areas
that we focused on in the management
consulting firm that i worked for
it was a public sector so we were did
that's gone
when i was coming out of college i was

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like this sounds interesting um
but it was a lot less interesting when i
got into it
or just i just knew it wasn't going to
be something that i wanted for the rest
of my life and so
um anyways but i was i was i was
fortunate enough to be able to save
about sixty thousand dollars in two
years
just working that job um and then i
drove across the country in the middle
of the night and packed all my stuff
and told my parents when i was halfway
across the country so they couldn't stop
me
um and uh from there
i uh pulled up at a gym owners that i
had emailed 40 guys on the internet who
seemed like they had gyms and he was the
only guy back to me and i just showed up
at his front doorstep and i said i'll
work for free and he said sure
and i worked for free for three months
and then i opened my first location
um i didn't have enough money for rent
so i slept on the floor for the first
nine months
um at the gym but you know fortunately
i'd gone to a marketing seminar two
weeks before i opened my gym
um and i learned about this thing called
facebook ads this was 2013.
and so very fortunate that i ended up
going to that conference i spent three

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thousand dollars of money that i didn't
have
who is the conference it was it was i
mean it was a really moral workshop it
was like ten people
for uh for three thousand a pop and it
was like in a vegas penthouse and here i
am sitting in a beast mode t-shirt with
was it any any marker that you still uh
follow yeah so travis jones he was uh
i'm not sure if he's still doing gym
coaching but he was at that time i think
he's got
10 or 15 gyms in australia yeah in the
us holding his workshop and so
um he basically taught how to make an ad
and click it to a landing page and that
was the that was the whole workshop
um i didn't i didn't have a business at
all and all these other guys were like
real business owners
i was like way over my head um but he
did say something to me that has always
stuck with me since and it's actually in
the book that you
read beforehand um is that he's like you
wanna know the secret to sales
i was like yeah he said make people an
offer so good that they
feel stupid saying no and for some
reason when he said that to me and i'd
never sold anything i was actually
literally understanding the term sales i
didn't even know that that was a
i truly i can't like i didn't know that

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00:53:00.000 --> 00:54:00.000
that was a thing like i didn't know
sales was an industry like just to show
you how like out of the world i was
um and so i was just like writing this
down and i circled it and i was like
okay that's what i have to do but what
was interesting is that once that
happened it totally anchored my world
view on sales is that
i just need to keep making my offer
better and better and better and better
so much so that if people aren't saying
yes i need to keep making the offer
better yes of course you need to learn
persuasion yes of course you learn
tonality and all the storytelling all
those types of things
so those are things that will enhance
your ability to get people to say yes
but fundamentally if your offer is
terrible
it's much more difficult to get people
to say yes unless you have a crack
record which if you're starting you
don't
and so you have to compensate for only a
lack of track record a lack of
persuasion skills with
a better offer and so that was kind of
what started my foray into understanding
offer structures and monetization which
i obviously wrote a book about so
there's i could talk about it forever
but to stay on track with the original
question
from there i was able to uh you know i
slept on the floor for a long time the
gym grew by five thousand a month every
month
the first nine months um by the ninth

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00:54:00.000 --> 00:55:00.000
month i had the whole thing out first
even though i was sleeping there
um so it was very profitable at that
point um
and then from there i opened a new
location every six months off the cash
flow
and so i ended up with six six games in
three years
that ran the same model which is a
little bit of a backwards model instead
of running
low barrier offers and dollar trials and
things like that which was come
i flipped the offers and sold really
expensive stuff up front
because i knew that that would get
people more invested um
they would be they would pay attention
to what we were doing be more likely to
see results
and they were actually twice as likely
to convert into ongoing members
with that because they're paying me more
upfront i was able to spend way more
than my competition on marketing
so these guys were trying to break even
on a 20 trial and i was making a
thousand dollars or six hundred dollars
in the first
14 days from a new client so i was able
to massively outspend
my competition and at that point
acquisition was no longer the bottom
of my business it was just operations
which i think everybody's dream
is all you're focused on is scaling your

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00:55:00.000 --> 00:56:00.000
back end rather than how do i get new
customers
was that the offer you spoke in the book
of the 600 for six weeks
that was the that was the that was the
home run grand slam
that was the first grand slam offer that
i ever made i've probably made four in
my life
that was the first one that was when i
understood the power of offers i'll
explain everybody down here if you want
so uh i didn't i didn't i adapted part
of this so
when i was with that gym owner that i
told you who was in uh that i
drove over to he was a mastermind guru
so he had like 20 gyms or something for
this mastermind
i didn't even own it and i signed up for
his best friend
and when he was there one of the guys
the mastermind said
i've got this offer that's working
pretty well for me right now i'm doing
this eight week
uh uh challenge where if someone uh
hits their goal um
i give them their money back but they
leave me a testimonial right that was
what he said
right and so then i went to um sam who
was the owner and i said hey we should
do something like that

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00:56:00.000 --> 00:57:00.000
you know here and so um he then adapted
that to be a six-week challenge for
semi-private training
and i was like i'll bet you that we
could sell this to mass market in groups
for for six hundred dollars and he's
like there's no way someone's paying 600
for boot camp he's like they're like
they were paying they were at 99 bucks a
month he's like there's no way to pay
600 dollars for six weeks
it's like they don't know the difference
in terms of the vehicle they just know
the outcome
if someone knows they can lose 20 pounds
in six weeks then they're
gonna do it um and so that ended up it's
like there were like three more first
eight week thing where you because the
testimonial was even then it became a
six week semi-private thing
and then it morphed into uh the large
group thing which is one uh
i kind of put my little spin on it how
many is in a large group
i mean unlimited as many people as you
could fit in the facility
so it'd be everything that probably the
majority of your audience doesn't like
but
uh it's it's long group training time
time circuits just going around
the thing is is that for the vast
majority of general population they just
need to move right and if they're
enjoying
music and they actually want to keep

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00:57:00.000 --> 00:58:00.000
going then if i need someone to walk
10 minutes a day for the rest of their
life i'd consider myself a success
in terms of interventions i think
shifting that for
for the for the exercise arists might be
useful but anyways
with that offer then it was like okay
well well i don't want to give everyone
their money back because that would suck
because we got tons of people to hit the
goal because they're putting money down
that they're going to lose x amount of
weight next piece of compliance went
through the roof
they got crazy before and after pictures
crazy testimonials they had to leave a
review there's all these things that we
put into it
uh so we actually got tons of social all
this great stuff came from it was like i
gotta fix this backhand then and then i
went to the different gym owner
justin blum from raw fitness he's a
franchisor now um
offhandedly i spent the whole day with
him and i was just trying to get that i
was like
something's missing and he was like yeah
he's like and if they hit it he's like
we just credit it for the rest of the
year and just roll it into a membership
and i'm like
that's what it is and so that's when i
they would hit the goal and i'd take the
600 and i'd spread it over 12 months
they'd get 50 bucks off a month
from that point going forward and so if
you met if you follow the money you'd

59
00:58:00.000 --> 00:59:00.000
make 600
and then immediately they would roll
right into continuity and hey so there's
actually never a break in payment
we'll get a crazy free offer that got
crazy results and tons of cash up front
and converted people on the back end at
twice the regularity of the trial
that became the strongest acquisition
system in the gym history and that's a
good gym launch
did you have to did you have to clarify
that because that sounds like it's a
little bit
um you're like well you're getting your
money back
but you you have to clarify that it's
going to be in in credit
yeah so we i mean this was this was a
series of adaptations you know what i
mean in the beginning it was cash back
and then it became credit back and then
credit over the term the thing is is
that when we explain it in the
sale uh we say are you here for short
term are you just here for a quick
picture you want long-term results
almost everyone says i want long-term
results it's like cool because that's
who we're looking for so here's the deal
we're gonna we're gonna do this and we
believe in our process so much we're
gonna give you this entire section three
if you just appear
right the reality is that was at the
halfway point we'd actually give them
the whole credit even if they weren't on
track

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00:59:00.000 --> 01:00:00.000
and so that way people could still feel
because no one we wouldn't know if
anyone actually hit the goal that weeks
for me
right and see listen are you in there
with a lot the long term or just for the
short we just repeat the same thing
they're like i'm in this
long term like that means you won the
challenge because that's the point
weight loss is just it's just part of
part of getting there but
the point is understanding that it's not
about six weeks right if we get that
then we're like great so let's just let
me just give you a big discount on
staying here
uh i just credit this forward fair
enough right and then
just like that we can put everyone from
the front end of the bat and how much
was your your back end continuity at
that point monthly and definitely for
large group we
we do it at uh 250 a month which we
knocked down to 199
with the 50 baht with the 50 discount
[Music]
and you're still using this model today
in gym lunch
so the offer structure yeah some of our
guys use it still it depends on the
market
um but the overarching structure we have
used with every offer we've ever made
which there are four steps to a
massive monetization structure

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01:00:00.000 --> 01:01:00.000
would you like me to walk with them you
read my mind man
you knew where i was going so so when
you're structuring the offers this is
what i
this is after me reviewing every offer
we've ever made across all the markets
across all the business sectors b to b b
to c
everything the ones that were the grand
slams we're talking lightning strike and
twice hit the lottery
jackpot type wins offers
say it followed the same four-step
process the first is that they had it
free or discounted from it
and that means that there's something
that's free that's being advertised
because when you do that you get the
most amount of people who are interested
the most amount of inbound inquiries
comments
clicks opt-ins etc right so you get the
cheapest amount in the highest volume
of leads that's step one step two
is we'd have some sort of upfront cash
offer
so there's eight different ways that i
learned about structuring these offers
the one that we just went over is one of
those
it's a deposit method um where you get
the person to

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01:01:00.000 --> 01:02:00.000
put money down and then they get the
money back at the end they do x y and z
that's one of them another one for
example would be that they come in for a
free thing and you say listen there's a
free version
and there's a paid version here's 20
reasons why the paid version is better
and then people are like you know what i
really want the payment with the
guarantee and all that other stuff
that's when you upsell right another way
of doing it would be
something i call invisible phrase which
is they come in and you say hey we're
going to do this program
and you can either pay now and pay 500
um or you can pay after the whole
program's over
and if you don't think it was worth a
thousand dollars you have to pay
but a lot of people take the discount
and pay today right and so that's
another offer structure and so there's
eight different offer structures that
you can use with free
to get people to pay money upfront and
be compliant as an advertiser
right and so the first concept is the
upfront cash we do that so we can
liquidate the acquisition cost meaning
the cost of cut cost it
how much it costs us to pay the
advertising platforms facebook etc
and our sales guys commissions so we can
actually make money getting customers
that's number one

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01:02:00.000 --> 01:03:00.000
number uh two the second part of this so
they're just technically the third sorry
there's the free
component there's the upfront cache the
third is the upsell down somewhere so to
maximize the value of every customer we
always
upsell and bounce off different options
on top of their packages so we can get a
higher average ticket
right and so the easiest thing to do for
just about every coach is to add in
supplements because people are going to
buy them anyways
i can spend 90 minutes selling you on
why they're going to buy them anyways
but i can just promise you
70 of americans already buy supplements
um they're already going to buy a fish
roll they're already going to buy
multivitamin they are going to buy a
protein you know if you want them to
take bcaas and creatine some other
things that you think are going to help
them
we often know is that people who take
the upsells
are more likely to stay with you and be
compliant
and they lose the most weight and get
the best results and i'll be the first
to admit i'm wearing a prestige laptop
but our supplement company
it's not because of the supplements it's
because of conviction in the buy-in
they are more invested they paid now
they're paying more attention
and they get a daily reminder of like oh

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01:03:00.000 --> 01:04:00.000
i'm i'm committed that's my
daily task exactly it's way more process
it's way more processed beneficial than
it is the chemicals in their body
but as coaches in my opinion we should
use every tool in our arsenal
if you know dr cashy wants to he's still
very convicted about making placebo
placebo brand supplements that just
all of them are placebo let's work out
everything
uh because he's like it is the most
studied of all supplements of all time
and it's proven to be more effective
than prescription drugs
you know i mean and it's true and if you
can use an effect that is more powerful
than prescription drugs
why would you not do that as a coach
right i could just picture him
oh he goes up no he goes off on it um
but
we as business owners need to also
understand that there's there's a
monetary component of the business we
have to pay people right and so
if we have to incur other costs like
doing nutrition orientations and grocery
store
things like that then we should find a

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01:04:00.000 --> 01:05:00.000
way to be able to cover that cost
and profit off that payroll and one of
the ways is to make recommendations on
supplements i'm not saying hard-selling
people and saying
hey hey these are the things that are
going to get you the best results of the
program
which is true because we already know
that because of all the things that you
said
right what flavor do you want don't ask
them if they want to ask them what
flavor
all of a sudden they'll assume that they
have to do it they say hey do you want
to shoot the card you have a file
they'll say yes you close the ceiling
you have to do it it makes it much more
seamless just fy everybody songs
the um uh and
i wrote a book on selling supplements i
won't even get to it um
the third piece after you've done the
upsells and downstairs that could be
adding
for apparel other things that were you
know fitness accessories things like
that that they're gonna they might want
third thing is gonna be getting them
into continuity right and so we sold
them this up from program because people
want to buy an outcome not a membership
so we sell them the outcome it's the
dream right we sell it for more than
they would normally pay on a recurring
basis
people pay 1200 for 12 weeks all day
long but then they bulk at a 99

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01:05:00.000 --> 01:06:00.000
a month membership because one feels
like forever and the other feels like a
defined outcome
so capitalize on that human nature sell
the most up front when it costs you the
most to get them in
right and then upsell or down sell and
the other things they're going to help
them on their journey
then halfway through before they finish
that first thing then sell them the
second thing don't wait till it
concludes because at that point you have
to resell them if they're in the middle
of kind of this open loop
then all you do is open another loop and
you start them from there and then of
course you want to make an irresponsible
offer to get them to
uh to get them to convert over and
that's where you can say hey i'll give
you half of your credit towards staying
with me
um if you want i'll actually give you
more stuff
there's lots of different ways you can
combine that which i use a lot of
discount offers on the back end
and so with that three-step process i've
used this for business coaching i've
used this for supplement sales i've used
this for uh
acquire customers with gyms
chiropractors dentists because now i
work with
a zillion different businesses but um
that four-step offer structure is what
gets the most people in the door
maximizes lifetime value

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01:06:00.000 --> 01:07:00.000
and keeps them paying and staying long
you're making me want to go and like
implement these or actually do these
strategies at my gym which i'll learn
notice i'm not gonna do
but that at least in my next question is
how do i train someone
to go through this process is it just
like hey go read alex's book
yeah that would uh that's the that's the
simplest and fastest way of doing it uh
the uh itself right now there's a
hundred books a month that gets sold in
zero paid advertising
so and it's been doing that for a year
so you and i talked it's like how can we
make something so good that people just
always be telling their friends about it
um my goal is that every gym owner and
every fitness professional should have
that in their hands like it is the
i honestly don't feel like it's my book
it's the distilled learnings from
serving 4 000 gym owners and by
extension 15
000 trainers and serving millions of end
users so
this book is the way to do it um
it's not really my opinion it's just
like this is the data and this is what
works and so

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01:07:00.000 --> 01:08:00.000
you use it so the book is
jim launch secrets oh so you got another
one coming out magic offers looking
forward to that obviously i'm reading it
i have
behind the scenes access but i highly
suggest everyone as soon as that comes
out head out and get it and i will make
sure we have you back on
to talk about it anything else that you
want to direct people to i'm sure
there's gym owners listening and go how
the hell do i hire this guy and steve
you can um you can probably go to
gymlodgesecrets.com
forward slash quiz i think that's uh one
of our links otherwise you can go to
alexisbook.com or alexisgroup.com
you just type my name and you'll find us
so
yeah and uh and like i said uh
incredibly impressed with who you are as
a human being
uh with your business mind and your
mission
to help so many people so thank you for
your time and you're a busy man i'm
super grateful as our listeners
it's super appreciated i always love my
b-pack time thank you to the audience
for giving me your admission i
appreciate it
thanks bro all right everybody that's a
wrap i know you love this conversation

69
01:08:00.000 --> 01:09:00.000
if you're someone who's in the fitness
industry
reach out to alex go get his book do not
wait to go get it now
and a special shout out to our sponsors
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and thank you later have a great day
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thank you for being here thank you so

70
01:09:00.000 --> 01:10:00.000
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