https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3nA-mu1iL8&ab_channel=JoeyGilkey-SalesDrivenAgency

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yo what's up fam welcome back to another
episode of the best damn agency podcast
where as you guys know at this point
number one podcast in the world for
digital agencies and at this point it's
it's science right scientifically proven
as mainstream media always tells you you
can't question science so we are
therefore number one
no questions asked in order for us to
stay number one as i say in every every
single episode i got to bring in the
best guests that i could possibly
bring in so that i can stay on the top
of the game and scientifically stay on
top of the charts and so without any
further ado today is no different
i got on my man alex vermosey who's kind
of kind of going off the charts right
now my man
you're going a little bit viral
i appreciate it
uh
you are an influencer and you have
nothing but things to sell
he uh what i respect a lot about alex um
this is mike my and i haven't told him
this so don't get weird about it alex uh
my entrepreneurial crush at the moment

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um i don't listen to i mean i do listen
to a lot of people and because i like
input but uh you're currently my
favorite person to listen to in a lot of
ways
appreciate it thank you and and a lot of
that and that's not just kissing ass as
much as it's actually been super
beneficial for my business and even
offer structures and we'll get to that
today
um
alex has uh very successful portfolio
companies
been super successful with jim launch
originally and now has what seven
companies in the portfolio
yeah acquisition.com yeah and you guys
are i think you guys are probably
getting up at 100 million dollars in
revenue per year
at this point so uh congrats to that
appreciate it for the record we're at
85. but just uh just for the record
you guys have done like 120 collectively
over the past three or four years so you
guys are
definitely crushing it and you guys know
how to structure offers which i'll
definitely talk about today um man real
quick for those who don't know you
they're about to know you very well um
give us very slight background because i
want to dive deeper with some questions

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but
uh what are you up to today obviously
you're more of running a portfolio but
give just a brief background of that and
then let's dive into some some questions
and get into it
so uh for the sake of the audience i
will i'll talk fast so you can listen
fast so we can get to the good stuff um
but yeah i uh i was a management
consultant right out of college
uh enjoyed that process did i enjoy the
work quit that i wanted to do something
i liked doing so i decided i was going
to open a gym
talked to a bunch of experts mentored
with one guy for three months worked for
free opened my first spot slept there
for nine months on the floor figured it
out uh at month 15 open up my second
location open it each location after
that at full capacity uh day one um
which is apparently not normal i didn't
know it was normal not normal i just
figured everyone should do that because
it made more sense to me i was like why
would you not open it full um and so had
six locations
uh at that time started getting reach
outs from gym owners been like hey man
what are you doing uh so then i started
flying out for just under two years
doing uh you know they were really gym

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turnarounds but we called them gym
launches because no one wants to get
turned around it's the ego thing so we
have launches and so we'd fly out uh we
did 33 turnarounds over the next uh just
under just under two years
and then um that got really difficult
from a logistics perspective eight guys
flying out eight hotels cars airfare you
know ad spend commissions every day and
then still turn into profit with taking
100 of the risk on um
there's a there's there's long stories
to each of these transitions but i'm
giving the bones of it and then from
there we started the licensing model
uh
the long story short is i didn't want to
fly out anymore a bunch of gyms were
supposed to get launched and i said hey
guys like i'm not going to do this
anymore we're going to just sell weight
loss direct because we started doing it
on my wife's channel and um we're doing
about a thousand bucks a day within 14
days i was like oh this is great we'll
take the 8 sales guys bring them in do 8
000 a day like we can make the switch
and um that was basically i was getting
out of the gym business i was like i'm
just going to sell my secrets all the
stuff that i know that that made my gyms
money in this whole turnaround process
and so
i ended up getting on the phone with

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eight guys supposed to launch i told
them the price they said yes and i
picked the highest price i could think
of because i didn't want to do it and
they said yes anyways and i was like
holy [ __ ] we made 60 000 in one day and
i was like this is bananas and i looked
at my wife i was like i think we're
still in the gym business we're doing it
wrong and so that's when we switched the
licensing model and then you know 4 000
plus locations i think we're like 4 300
um that have come through the gym launch
licensing model then from there we
started the supplement company that
sells through that distribution base
from there we started a meal prep
company from there we did a software
company um that it turned out actually
was better for agencies than for gyms
but we've learned that in the process um
can't have a lead working software so
someone doesn't have leads they'd be
like oh this is awesome but how do i get
leads we're like oh [ __ ] we didn't think
about that so we ended up working with
agencies
and then um i would say in the last
12 to 18 months or so probably 18 months
my shift my shift has gone from like ceo
to kind of
chairman of the board owner shareholder
kind of position which has been a really
cool transition for me to be a part of i
think it's actually made me better at

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business
um
and so now we're uh you know we're we're
putting capital to work and
buying minority stakes in typically
education and training companies that
are in niches so that's um that's the
the primary type target it's usually
five million to the biggest company we
have in that in that side is doing about
30 million um smallest is doing eight
million so
we i draw the line at three in the book
because like if someone says something
interesting i'm i'm there but usu most
of them skew a little higher like you
know right now
so yeah that's the difference that's
what we're crushing it and um and he's
got a lot of that in his book too and
we'll talk about that a little bit but
as we talked about before i have a ton
of agencies that listen to this
specifically digital marketing agencies
they range from the smaller guys right
startup six figures into the seven and
eight figure agencies which is what most
my businesses work with seven and eight
figure but i have a decent audience of
six so
in this space
big problem is
the offer differentiated i mean like at
the end of the day we're

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in such a commoditized market and
saturated because
at the other day anybody with a laptop
and a stupid [ __ ] creative name that
we want to throw out there with like
animals and colors and whatever we want
to name our company
and we can basically do any sort of
marketing right if you can get access to
a facebook ads account great if you can
write content great if you can outsource
to anyone great
and unfortunately with a lot of that we
become generalists who become
um
you know folks who kind of do all things
for all people and in this market you're
swimming in a red ocean when you do that
you talk a lot about a couple things i
want to highlight uh one is the value
formula for creating like grand slam
offers
uh but the other
is you talk about niche slapping fools
right
the niche slap right narrowing it on
your focus can you just real quick
highlight that part of like the value
like what the benefits of niching down
because so many people hate to make that
jump because they feel like they're
saying no to stuff
when they say yes to one specific type

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of person or vertical
yeah i mean i i heard this quote i like
it a lot strategy is knowing what you're
not going to do more than it is knowing
what you are going to do and so it's
knowing what you say no to if you can't
say no then you don't have a strategy
and so the idea is i mean that's why i
think people don't really take any
consideration to who their avatar is
right anybody who says i can serve
anyone has no idea really what they're
talking about because there are clients
that you will do better or worse with
and so the idea is how can we
how can we just pick the home runs right
so how can we pick the guys who are
going to who we're going to crush it for
and then by doing that and even create a
more polarizing message that like you
said with this podcast is probably
relatively polarizing because your
political views and whatnot and so
that's going to some people like well i
don't want to ostracize half my market
but what it also does is it magnetizes
and supercharges the other half which uh
i'd rather i'd rather have a five times
more engaged you know 20 percent than a
a mildly aroused you know
yeah exactly uh and so
so
the niching down thing is something that

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i've given a tremendous amount of
thought too so when you're starting out
what we're really doing is trying to
narrow the competitive space right we're
trying to make it so that you're a
smaller pond that you're competing in so
that you can actually be the best right
but you like frankly if you're at six
figure seven figures or eight figures
you're not the best marketing agency
because the best marketing agencies in
the world do billions not you know
they're yeah they're billions and so you
can't say you're the best you can't
because you don't have you don't have
the numbers to support it but you could
say you're the best at you know helping
hearing aid specialists um go find
hearing aid clients because then you
could go really deep and then i think
what the new direction for most agencies
is going to have to be because the
marketplace is consistently competitive
and it always has to level up right in
the beginning you just put you could do
lead ads and then it was you have to put
them on a google sheet then after that
you have to book appointments and after
that you have to start you know bringing
isos in so they can schedule the
appointments for your for your clients
but i think as it really continues to
evolve is it's really more these kind of
hybrid coaching slash agency solutions
because then it's really like done for
you acquisition and more more succinctly
done for you money making that's right

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right so you're basically running all of
the acquisition side um and then also
telling them this is the offer that
we've already seen convert best these
are the price points that we're seeing
selling these are the adjustments we'll
make by market um in terms of up five
percent up ten percent but these are the
actual gaps between each of these
pricing rungs that need to exist and by
the way here's all the solutions that we
have and we have a your your doctor on
staff who actually you know made all
these things so they can support the
efficacy of the program and if you
follow our process and you set your
lobby up this way you'll maximize your
returns and so it's it's taking a lot
more responsibility which is probably
the main word here
over your client's success and i think
that as as practitioners in general for
us as entrepreneurs especially if you're
a service provider
we're just not served in any way by
blaming our customers
like we make no more money by blaming
them like we gain truly nothing besides
saving our egos and so if the goal is to
be right then go be right but if you
want to be rich then i think
it's much better serving saying what

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else are they struggling with and just
consistently solving the problems until
there are almost no problems left to be
solved and at that point that's why
almost all coaching companies become
personal development with a long enough
time frame because they solve all the
tactical problems and realize that
people just have terrible views uh and
horrible marriages yeah that prevent
them from succeeding that have nothing
to do with uh you know learning how to
run an ad
i love that and i think correct me from
wrong are you a fan of naval ravicon too
yeah so so one thing he talks about and
if you guys haven't checked out the
almanac uh the i think they call it the
naval
the valma neck or something like that
it's clever cute
um i think it's more that's a
transcribed version more edited version
but he's also got a tweet storm and a
podcast about this but
he talks about the the law of
combinatorics
of how you know there's say there's just
10 000 things that you can master or be
number one in in the world
and there's seven eight billion people
the likelihood of you being number one
in any one of those categories is is
virtually zero but when you start

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combining
where you're at in any three four five
six seven eight of those
those categories the combination the law
of combinatorics the combination is what
actually sets you apart
and owning that authenticity is actually
what ultimately drives
loyalty and brands and
all the other good [ __ ] that comes with
that
as an aside on this because i think this
might be valuable for the people who are
listening so you know of the friends
that i have who do you know over nine
figures or midnight figures um or over
ten figures
there's there are some common traits but
there are a lot of different ways to
skin a cat and i think that if if if a
lot of newer entrepreneurs like saw how
different the character traits are like
they're guys who are early risers super
disciplined dudes there's dudes who are
like uh you know i'll never wake up
before nine and this is how i roll
they're guys who are super super micro
and love
love the dirt and love getting into it
and then there's guys who just move
money around and allocate capital

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um there are guys who do roll ups and
you know and they're just consolidating
businesses and there's guys who really
want to build a brand and just spend
years building brand equity and then
monetize through what would be
considered commoditized products but
with the branding on top of them they
can sell for premiums and make tons of
money and i've seen so many different
ways to slice it that i think the
biggest takeaway is your point there is
you're not gonna like it's very
difficult to be best in the world of
marketing right but you you can be
the best at you know like i said you're
you're you know hearing aid specialists
uh you know helping them acquire
customers in a way using this unique
method that helps you know uh that's
that might be different than than other
people are because you might have been
like you know what i used to do cold
calling for real estate and then i
learned how to run facebook ads and my
grandfather had a hearing issue and so
that's how like those three kind of
rungs cross-section and it's like boom
this is the perfect opportunity for you
and the metrics in the business make
sense well i think too the the other
benefit is one you do you you climb the

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ranks of authority really fast in that
space like for me people know [ __ ] about
me in the sas space right they have no
idea but if you ask agencies they more
than likely have run into me or some
piece of me
in some way shape or form but it's only
because i've been
committed to this space for seven years
now
and i've just said i'm only going to
serve agencies and there's benefit from
an authority perspective but there's
also benefit from a scale perspective
right like yeah agencies if you're a
generalist and you do all things for all
people
you're having to every time you land a
new client
and the scope is different every [ __ ]
time
then your service is different
the metrics are different the industry
you serve is different so you have to
learn how to combine all these things
just to pull off what you sold someone
but if you say hey we do this thing for
this type of person we get this result i
think that helps you with scalability
which helps you profitability which is
why we're in this thing is what's left
over at the end of it
yeah what is it happening because you're
able to in a very real way provide more
value because if you really think about
it if you spent let's say you said the

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generalist thing well if every single
one of your customers let's say you have
let's say 20 completely different types
of clients
if you spent three years only serving
clients like one of those types of
clients and you could pick any 20 of
them right you could live 20 lifetimes
to do it but like if you just picked one
of them you would imagine that three
years from now if you only serve that
one specific type of client would you
would you not like would it be
reasonable to assume that if you've
heard my pockets like do i believe it'd
be reasonable that i'd be much better at
fulfilling these needs and providing
value three years from now if i only
serve this client the answer is yes and
so if i if i'm using that that
assumption right as the basis of the
argument well if i can have far more
value that i can provide
then in so doing i'll have higher stick
rates i can command higher prices which
will allow me to have
more margin and i'll have more
operational efficiencies because i'm i'm
i'm copy pasting you know 90 of the work
right because especially if you're
especially if you have any kind of if
you're if you're if you're running a
copy paste play on geography right
that's where it's like you're running 95
the exact same thing but the here's
what's wild is that even though for you

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it is almost effortless to do
for that business owner if you can add a
hundred thousand in top line or 500 000
in top line you can charge on that but
when you're a generalist there's no way
that you can be that specific about how
much value you're going to provide and
then you'll fall into the commoditized
services and you will inevitably compete
on price and then we race to the bottom
where the floor is
and die and that which brings to the
point you would mention which is uh
it is not a distinct advantage
to be the second cheapest in the market
yes that's not my quote that's dan
kennedy's but yes it is there you go
kennedy or yeah dan kennedy is also a
genius him and perry marshall have been
super influential in some stuff that
i've done but
perry's a good dude
the
but what he talks about there is there
is no distinct advantage right
there's there's an advantage of a very
big advantage to be the cheapest in the
market right that is an advantage being
second cheapest doesn't do [ __ ] for you
but there's also a distinct advantage if

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you are the most expensive in a
marketplace
so you and i think i think we think
similar to why i've gravitated towards
your content
i think about growth in like three
categories and i think you've maybe said
very something very similar to this and
i'm sure i've ripped this from somewhere
and made it my own and caught my own
intellectual property like we all have
done at some point
um i look at it as pipeline right
leads inbound outbound referrals
earn media paid media whatever
wherever our leads come from that's our
pipeline
win rate how many of those are returning
into paying customers
and
uh client value what is that client
worth to us when you multiply all three
of those you somewhat can land on a
monthly or annual revenue
um
and and most people are obsessed with
leads right like you're in the lead gen
space right like that's meaning like
that's that's your like number one thing
and most people obsess about leads
there's also a level or a point i'm sure
that you emphasize this with your sales
team or your customers is leads don't
matter for jack if the client value

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sucks and or we can't win them at a
certain clip
for agencies because if you impact all
three of those you have exponential
growth
right 26 percent of all three categories
equals doubling your business
basically
um
when is it enough like at some point
when you look at your businesses either
your portfolio companies or gym launch
or whatever
you excel at legion i guess you could
always just keep spending money and keep
generating leads like
where is the obsession with the other
two categories if there is one right
that's my obsession but if there is one
how important is that
focusing on the full growth formula
i'm more of a back end guy
actually people know me as an
acquisition guy but
the back informs the front you know what
i mean and so i think this might be
really valuable for your audience so
because of our software company um alan
we have a lot of agencies that we have
direct access to all their data i have
all their sales revenue i have their
close rates i have everything it's all
on the platform and so i can tell you
that the average cost of acquisition

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from from an ad spend perspective for a
small business owner like a chiropractor
or a dentist is between one and three
thousand dollars pretty much invariably
and so as long as you were just not [ __ ]
at like as long as you're following the
basics and you have a decent offer i'm
not saying that grand slam offer i'm
seeing a decent offer even of relatively
commoditized services you will spend
between one and three thousand dollars
in advertising in order to require
customer so pause there for a moment
now i had this is years ago i had a a
quote competitor or somebody who's who
served a similar avatar to me reach out
and ask me for help to grow their
business um and this was when i the five
times that i've ever done this and so
i'd said sure i'll sell you a day of my
time and so um when he came out i we put
all of his numbers on the board and what
was interesting is that his number of
sales per month was about 80 of the
number of sales per month that we were
doing
but
we were doing 10 times the revenue and
about 80 times the profit
and so
right interesting
and so he was like so i don't really

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need more help on acquisition at all and
i was like right i was like you just
don't make any money per customer and so
in the software world right there's a
there's kind of an unwritten rule that
it's three to one um is the minimum ltv
to cac ratio and so for me if i'm
looking at business um that is the ratio
that i'm looking at and they say ltv and
software because typically the gross
margins all software are almost 100 you
know they're close to that right um but
i think for agencies i use the term
lifetime gross profit rather than
lifetime value because
that you know if i'm selling a meal for
nine dollars sorry for ten dollars and
it cost me nine i could say hey i made a
hundred dollars but i really like ten
so
right and so to the same degree here uh
to answer the question you originally
asked like when is enough and what am i
looking for i think this is one of those
big belief questions um where you know
you change your beliefs and you change
your expectations and then you you find
new ways to solve problems most people
are satisfied making a little amount of
money and that is because that is their
belief and that is what they accept and
that's fine um

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i
typically won't stop working on some
acquisition strategy until we've passed
20 to one
i won't i will and so and either i have
to do that because we have to make
better offers etc but more realistically
it's in
improving the pricing model and how
we're going to provide value to the
customer and so like i had with this
gentleman when we had this conversation
i was making 10 times more revenue and
the revenue that i was making was worth
a lot more because most of it was was
contribution margin um and so that was
ultimately you know the difference i
think he was taking home three or four
hundred grand a year and we were talking
home 17 million off of just that one
business line yeah and so with the same
number of sales or eight you know he's
close to the amount of sales that we had
in terms of unit sales and so
i think that it is worth saying for
everyone here you make money based on
how much profit you make like yeah
there's this thing with the agency world
of dick measuring where they even
include the ad spend and the revenue
that they're making it is like my least
favorite thing ever right of course but

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it's you know because then here's the
thing if you're listening to this and
you do that then
you'll be able to answer the question
which is you want a business because you
want status and that's okay it means
you're human but i can promise you that
you'll have a lot more status and you
won't feel shitty uh and you won't feel
like you're on the edge of getting
exposed at any corner when you start
talking about numbers you get like your
palms get sweaty and your face gets null
and you want to change the topic when
people get specific
um and that's the reason i share all my
numbers pretty plainly with things i'm
like yep we went down last year
got kicked in the nuts of it you know
what i mean but
it's also i just it's just the game you
know what i mean if you if you can't
keep score the right way then then you
can't really improve because you can't
confront the facts right well here's my
and one thing that i love and you kind
of mentioned that 17 million number one
thing you had said too and i don't want
to take this too far off path because i
want to stay in this lane a little bit
but
the the power of investing in
in the business to where the business
becomes an asset for you as opposed to a
really well-paying job right because

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like what you said whatever's left over
is what matters and and you'd probably
take that a step further whatever's left
over
and is passive or an asset is actually
what matters as opposed to having a job
so one thing you had talked about in the
book i believe is the book or maybe as a
podcaster i don't know i've consumed so
much [ __ ] lately it's ridiculous also by
the way for those listening at this
particular moment in
late august it'll be next week so early
september
you're growing your youtube channel by
like one or two thousand subscribers a
day i'm watching because i was there
since like five thousand
and then uh
your book would you say like you've sold
like 22 23 000 copies in the first 30
days
yeah that's crazy dude and i think a lot
of it's because of your your your
your philosophy of either sell and
really sell or don't sell at all and
provide a ton of value and expect
nothing in return
so kudos to you on that that's
incredible
thank you um and actually you know why
we do that let me just segue into
pushing people there so
um
i don't push people [ __ ] i really don't

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um because i don't really listen to a
whole lot of people but when i do listen
to them they really impact me
i want to make sure i show love and so
for those who are watching this on
youtube you can see the book in front of
me 100 million offers uh by our guest
today
um it is the best book that i have read
on offer creation offer structuring uh
picking a target market things of that
nature and so for those of you who are
an agency and you're swimming in that
red ocean or you feel as though you've
plateaued or you feel as though you
don't know how to get the most out of
your target market
um this book's for you and so i want to
push usually i push my [ __ ] here but i
felt like this is the the best time to
actually
push someone else's and so um sales
driven agency dot com forward slash alex
i benefit zero from that it literally
just redirects you to his amazon page
i'm just making it easy on you
sales driven agency.com four slash alex
we'll go get the book i think you sign
up for a dollar because that's what
amazon makes them sell it for at the
very minimum
um i want you guys to go there and what
i want to do
um
as as a as a thank you to alex for

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00:24:00.000 --> 00:25:00.000
coming on
as well as for you guys to benefit you
if you guys go
read the book and you get it and you
also give him a review
give an honest one i have a pretty good
feeling on what star that's going to be
and you screenshot your review and you
email podcast sales drivenet.com i will
put my recruiting team on it's a 10 000
offer
i will hire your next salesperson and
train them for you for free
uh as a thank you for
showing our guests some love so
go do that podcast at salesdrivenat.com
send that screenshot there i'll have my
team look at it we'll pick a winner here
by the end of september and someone's
getting a salesperson for free by my
recruiting team who actually knows what
the [ __ ] they're doing
anyways thank you so much i appreciate
that and for the audience um
inside there's also a free course that
comes with it and downloads and
checklists that are available on my site
there's no opt-in required so you're not
gonna get
yeah there's no upsells there's no
funnel that's just uh it's just trying
to i don't have a i have no product

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when you make 85 million dollars
actually running businesses you don't
want to sell courses and [ __ ]
if you don't want to
and i love that about i appreciate that
um
man i want to take it a little bit i
want to talk about two things i want to
get a little bit deeper in a minute but
first because i think this is the most
the most impactful part of this book i
think is the value formula and there's
so much meaning there's so many nuggets
but i think for for folks who are trying
to find that differentiating factor when
you nail the offer life gets really
freaking easy for your business um
and so i want to i want to kind of
preface that a little bit of
i feel like i have intuitively done some
of it but when you explain the bottom
part like the denominator of your
equation which we'll explain here in a
second
it made a ton of sense like it just
clicked like no one's talking about time
delay and effort and sacrifice and so i
won't spoil it i'll let you explain it
what is the value formula
in the list
yeah so the value equation was something
that um so
for anybody who knows my stuff

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00:26:00.000 --> 00:27:00.000
yeah no you're good uh so warren buffett
says you know price is what you pay
value is what you get right and in the
internet space we talk about value
provide value etc and everyone throws
the word out but i don't think anyone
defines it it's very difficult to hit a
target that's very fuzzy and so the idea
was how can i how can i put some
concrete terms around this so that we
can so we can actually have something to
attack and measure ourselves against in
terms of value so that was the kind of
the
the reason for doing this so there's
four components to value as i see them
and we could probably get more you know
chunk down or chunk up but i think that
these four kind of the big the big
pillars that existed as i've looked at
the most
uh the highest converting offers we've
had um and now it's a framework that we
used to create the offers that we have
in our companies and so the first um so
if this is a fraction so for everybody
who's watched or listening it's just
pretend there's a line in the middle of
the screen and you've got two numbers on
the top two numbers on the bottom all
right and so the first number is going
to be a function of the dream outcome
and what i mean by that is what is the
actual experience or transformation that
we're going to be providing to the
person right and the reason that i
include this in this is is for the
primary reason to show the distinction

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between
different types of transformations so
for example if i'm going to help someone
help a dude i'll say a dude because
that's probably most the audience here
so i'm going to help a guy lose 20
pounds
um versus helping a guy make a million
dollars
those are two positive outcomes
most men though will get more status
from from making a million dollars than
from losing 20 pounds they'll also
probably get better women as a result of
that right
um because of status right and so
uh because that is a more valuable
for men in general in general as a
category
products that will sell how to make more
money will will sell for a higher price
in general than products that are being
sold for like being more handsome or
whatever which is why the men's beauty
industry is not that big compared to uh
you know let's say the women's beauty
right
so that's number one right is to compare
these two but let's say you have two
different two proof products that solve
the same dream outcome let's say uh it's
weight loss right you've got a nine
dollar ebook that helps people lose

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weight and you've got a 50 000 surgery
that helps people lose weight well it's
the same dream outcome well then how can
you have such vastly different prices
well it's the other three variables in
the value equation which brings me to
number two so this is the second number
on the numerator if you remember from
from i guess this would be elementary
school uh but that's the number on the
top right
uh which is going to be the perceived
likelihood of achievement and what i
mean by that is
how likely does a prospect perceive
their likelihood of achieving the
outcome that we are promising after we
purchase and that word i want to
emphasize
is so key the perception
yes because at the end of the day we
could have
uh you know we could improve all these
things about the product if we don't
communicate in a way that they will
perceive then it doesn't actually
confirm more value on the front on the
back end it will and then you'll get
more back in sales etc but but from the
front end for us to raise our prices
that that value has to be perceived
prior to the purchase you can have 100
success rate if they don't proceed that
you're gonna have 100 success rate
doesn't matter and so the example that i
like to give that i just like using

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00:29:00.000 --> 00:30:00.000
extreme examples to make the thoughts
clearer is let's say you have two
doctors and i'll use the liposuction
example i just said both of these guys
are liposuction doctors one of them just
got out of medical school and this is
going to be their first surgery ever the
other guy has done ten thousand of this
exact same surgery and he's old and
crushed to feed but still sharp right
if you're if you're gonna send your wife
or your spouse your partner to go get
the surgery
who are you gonna pick exact same
surgery
well you'd probably pay a lot more to
get to the go to go to the guy who's
doing who's done 10 000 of these
compared to the guy who's done one 100
why
because the perceived likelihood of
achievement you believe that if you pay
him you will have a far higher
likelihood of achieving what you want or
getting what your desired outcome is and
so in a true way the perceived
likelihood of getting it confirms real
value to the product even though
both of these services are identical
that's what's wild right and you can see
how you might even ask the other dude to
pay you to be his first patient right
because of how insane it is but that is
the difference in terms of perceived
likelihood of achievement all right and
so if we're thinking about big picture

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the top of this equation because we
cover dream outcome and perceive likely
of getting that dream outcome our goal
is to raise these to the highest degree
we possibly can we want to raise their
perception of the transformation the
perception likely that they're going to
get it both of those things we're going
to max it out what's interesting though
is that most marketers do this who have
some degree of success and when i
started my marketing career in my
business career i spent all my time on
the top side of the equation when as
i've gotten older and just more
weathered in the industry whatever more
experience
i looked at the bigger companies and all
of their effort is not on the top side
of the equation but it is on the bottom
side of the equation which is the
remaining two variables so the third
variable now we're in the denominator
the bottom part of the fraction
is time delay and that is the time
between when someone makes the purchase
and when they receive the outcome right
or they experience the transformation
and as a as a visual representation of
this and a simple hack for anybody if
you want to provide more value to anyone
look at what everyone else is doing in
the marketplace and do it in half the
time
easiest way to provide value that
they're ex that they're people pay for

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00:31:00.000 --> 00:32:00.000
speed before they pay for free
always fast speed's free right how do
you how does spotify free
right how did spotify beat
beat online free downloads
they beat it because it was fast and
they're not even free that's what's
crazy right so the the the third
variable is time delay and as an extreme
example because that's what i'm i'm
going to do here to illustrate the
thoughts
in the weight loss market right if
you're guys and i had a product that if
as soon as you clicked it you looked at
your stomach and you had a six-pack
imagine how wonderfully valuable that
product would be
how much would you be willing to just
click and buy and have a six-pack
a lot of money tons right and in the
marketing agency right if we're if we're
using the the example that we have here
for the majority of the audience
most people they sign someone up then
they send them materials and then i need
some creative and it's going to take us
30 days to get you spun up and then it's
going to take x period of time before
you get your first leads and y period of
time before appointments and then sales
and then before those payment plans kick

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in so maybe you'll roi at day 60 blah
blah blah right and that's that's most
of the marketplace right
imagine an agency that as soon as
someone's card ran their phone rang and
it was like a new lead that was
qualified saying hey i just heard about
your thing i'd like to sign up imagine
how much more valuable that would be
significantly and so the question that
we have now as entrepreneurs is now if
we know this is a value component how
can we do that in the in the absurd
world that that we can imagine in our
mind that's not bound by reality how can
we do that and a lot of times you can
find ways it's like well i guess we
could templatize these things and i
think if we had them sign up in the
morning we could we could have a team
that's ready that that that's live and
and prioritizes speed right i'll tell
you one of the companies i own um
is the photography space and so uh this
is kind of funny but we have uh we have
a financing partner we sell really high
ticket portraits and stuff and so for
like kids things and so it's just funny
right
anyways
one of the things we realized is that

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because our financial partner only we
only get paid once the product ships
right
and so
they
they basically pull the escrow and hold
it until the product ships and then we
get paid right
and so what was interesting is that the
ceo of that company we had a
conversation the other day and he was
like so we have in-house financing and
we have third-party financing
in-house financing we do the same things
except we're getting paid throughout and
once they finish their payments then we
ship the product right that's how we do
it internally so we have like a it's
like collateral right
so what do you realize just say hey i
can massively i can i can
i can cut our cash conversion cycle by
by two-thirds
if i have a separate team that just
prioritizes the third-party vendor stuff
and then we sell that as a benefit of
using the third-party vendors that you
get your stuff faster if you use
third-party financing yep
and so just like that we get more cash
they get a faster delivery and we turn
over our cash at three times the speed
so pretty cool so anyways that's the
idea of time delay and the goal is
obviously to decrease that
the fourth variable

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is effort and sacrifice which are two
sides of the same coin and i'll
delineate this and it's actually
something that i didn't include the
books there's this bonus for everybody
is that effort as i define it
is something that a prospect must begin
doing that they do not want to do that
they were not doing prior to starting to
work with you and so many times when we
start doing services we're like i'm
doing all the stuff for them but we're
not including the fact that they have
very real costs that are not monetary
that that we that they are incurring
so all of a sudden they have to work
leads they have to make creative they
have to they have to hire somebody to
manage this relationship they have
there's all these other things they have
reports they have to fill out etc
whatever your type of agency is these
are true costs and that is an effort the
flip side of that is sacrifice what are
things that they were doing that they
enjoyed doing that they no longer able
to do as a result of the fact that they
started working with you in the fitness
example
susie can't eat the food she wants she
can't sleep in anymore right she can't
go on the long walks
anymore because she's sore as [ __ ] but
she can't drink all the weekends she's

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00:35:00.000 --> 00:36:00.000
blah blah yeah poor susie right and so
you could you could say hey if she can't
sleep in she's also
has to use effort to get up so that's
why same side of the same point but i
like i like thinking about it from both
perspectives because i think it it
provides clearer thoughts and so if
you're thinking about your own services
again the goal is how can i decrease
effort and sacrifice and so the
difference between
i'll use an agency example again if
someone signs up right let's just say
the time delays are normal we'll still
keep it at 30. but between them signing
up and when they start getting stuff
they do nothing
yep versus the other guy who's like give
me your creative i need access to all
these things
all this stuff how much more valuable is
it much more right and especially in
terms of client satisfaction retention
rates ascension etc that's even more
important for the back end stuff because
it's easier to sell around effort and
sacrifice on the front but it's much
harder to keep right and so those are
the four main variables and i'll say
from the top again
first is dream outcome is the thing or
transformation or experience something
that someone truly wants and it's going
to increase their status number two

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what's their perceived likelihood upon
purchasing that they think they're going
to experience that right if i'm selling
a gym membership right or selling that
ebook like i was saying before yeah if i
buy a nine dollar e-book the likelihood
that i think i'm gonna lose the stomach
fat very low if i pay 50 000 for
liposuction the likelihood that i think
that stomach fat is gone wildly high
right it's gone without my consent right
so there's a huge value there third is
what we're trying to decrease is the
time delay fast speed beat's free and
then finally effort and sacrifice how
can we eliminate those things because in
a perfect world and this is the title of
that little section was getting the
bottom to zero
in a perfect world if you can make your
time delay instantaneous or non-existent
basically and you can make the effort
and sacrifice zero so someone doesn't
have to do anything
then in theory someone would purchase
and as they purchased it the outcome or
transformation happened or appeared
you'd have an infinitely valuable
product yes and so if we can at least
think of that as nirvana
when we're like there's nothing else i
can do to my product i guarantee you
there's a hundred things you can do to
your product and probably more

38
00:37:00.000 --> 00:38:00.000
specifically things that you can
eliminate from your product to make it
even better and so one of the things
that a lot of people don't know is that
in our licensing business which is the
first business we started the gym
business
um all of the subsequent improvements to
our product made the product shorter
not longer
which is one of my biggest pet peeves
and bones with the kind of e-learning
space in general is that
and i'll tell you one story which i i
don't i don't i haven't told in a while
um i bought a course once it was on how
to scale facebook ads this is probably
six years ago long time ago
and i paid seven hundred dollars for the
course it was a weird price
and uh i bought the course
and i logged in
and there was one 45-minute video
and i watched the 45-minute video
and i learned everything i needed to
learn about scaling facebook ads
and i remember thinking wow that was
awesome i'm so happy that i didn't have
to watch 10 hours of useless live
coaching calls that were recorded that
were thrown into modules that no one
will ever watch
i didn't have to do that because all of

39
00:38:00.000 --> 00:39:00.000
the information was consolidated in one
place and it made it easy for me to
immediately absorb and execute
and so again he was selling the outcome
how i get there i want to have that as
least effort as possible and so when we
make our stuff we're going through with
that with that in mind is how quickly
can we get our clients money and usually
we'll design the client experience
around the activation points that we
know are predictors of ascension and so
we know that for example you know if we
can get a customer to to make a 2 000
sale right within their first seven days
exactly exactly right the exit is the
the destination but the mile markers let
you know how close you're getting to the
ultimate destination that's great
and yep and i think um
and two this is why i think again i said
well i was intuitively i think that that
bottom part i didn't really
i didn't have anything tangible to
actually understand what that meant
until i read your book but i think
intuitively i realized so my main
company sales driven agency we build
full-blown sales operations for digital

40
00:39:00.000 --> 00:40:00.000
agencies so the process all the
processes and systems people we hire and
train and set up management frameworks
for you to manage the sales people when
we're gone and enablement tech stack all
that fun [ __ ]
one of the most
one of the things that lengthened our
process was the hiring component all
right hiring is a [ __ ] especially in
this market and so
our initial offer was we will build the
hiring system the hiring funnel if you
will
for your sales reps in your business so
that you can run it long past when we're
gone cool right
ultimately what we found out was they
don't care if it's there when we're gone
they want the sales person as fast as
possible getting in there selling so
that they no longer have to sell
and so what we ended up saying was i'm
going to build an in-house recruiting
firm and we're going to take it off your
plate because it would take four six
eight weeks for them to go through
because they have to handle the
candidates they have to interview
whatever and i said i'm gonna serve you
the top three candidates that's vetted
by my team in two weeks
and so we were able to condense that
recruiting portion of our whole sales

41
00:40:00.000 --> 00:41:00.000
operation down to two weeks instead of
six to eight and a lot of times which
got us money faster it got them the
result faster and
i think intuitively that happened when
you said that i was like that's why that
[ __ ] works that's why you know and so
for those of you guys who are analyzing
what you do
in your offer and how you like we all
it's easy to focus on the top very easy
to focus on dream outcome and even
perceive that's why we intuitively know
any case studies and testimonials and
things like that that's the perceived
part
and we talk about the end goal of
driving whatever achieving whatever
we very rarely talk about time delay how
long it takes them to achieve that and
the effort and sacrifice what's required
of them to either give up or take on
i love that and one more thing to just
back to your picking your market that's
why it's important to know your market
and to select your market strategically
is because knowing what dream outcome
people are achieving the perceived
likelihood of you being able to achieve
that
how long it takes you to do it and the
effort and sacrifice of your client

42
00:41:00.000 --> 00:42:00.000
if you work with anyone and everyone
you're gonna have the most money like
you can't do this this this equation
doesn't work
realistically and so i think that's
super their their outcome would just be
low yeah
you would score low yeah and perception
is going to be tough you know because if
like you said if you're uh
or even um if you are the doctor and you
go to a regular hospitalist and they
tell you hey your heart's you know got
some issues going on we should take you
back into surgery you're gonna be like
i'd rather go see the cardiologist
because like that's what he does
and that's kind of how you guys are
operating as hospitalists instead of the
cardiologist to become the cardiologist
um i want to pivot because i know your
time is valuable and and we're actually
kind of at it so i want to be fast here
i'm going to talk real quick about
philosophy
um
real quick let's talk about about about
the meaning of life
yes
um but very very quickly if we can
for your sake um because i can be here

43
00:42:00.000 --> 00:43:00.000
all day your philosophy i think and as i
listen to your content another reason i
really align with you and it's changed
my life has changed a lot
in the probably the past four years
um and my philosophy has changed a lot i
think we align in some ways but
the way that you kind of see business
and life and even legacy to an extent
which you actually just had a video come
out like yesterday or two days ago about
legacy and what you leave behind and all
that kind of stuff um
i loved your uh your catchy tagline we
gave all our money away
um but talk about that a little bit
where
like your philosophy on when is enough
enough right at what point is money not
the metric
and and even the legacy to some degree
and again you can be as fast on this or
slow we're on your we're on your clock
here cowboy
so uh
i listen so warren buffett is probably
like warren buffet and charlie munger
are probably my top two heroes um
and i've learned more from them about
business and life than probably anyone
and you know warren defines it as

44
00:43:00.000 --> 00:44:00.000
wealth is is having enough
he just makes it pretty simple like and
so that means that
the number can be wildly different
and uh esther cathy who's the
chick-fil-a owner um he said that his
pastor said this to him and i just liked
it a lot he said um
wealth is
not having so is is being able to sleep
well at night not thinking about money
because either you have too little and
you're thinking about money or you have
so much that you're thinking of about
money yeah that's huge and so it's just
being able to sleep well at night and i
think so now that being said i think you
can have lots of money as long as it's
like i've joke in my in my company it's
like if i think about you before i think
of my wife and you're not making me
money i was like you got to go right so
like
if i wake up and i think and it's not
and you're not my wife and i'm not
thinking you're not in some way making
us money like you're you're you need to
get out of your life
and so um
so i i used to i mean you've heard of my
content i see wealth as a ratio between
income and expenses and that's what
ultimately like decreases your anxiety

45
00:44:00.000 --> 00:45:00.000
so that you can have the freedom you
want you can either make more money or
you can decrease how much you how much
you uh
spend in general i think judicious
spending is probably hard for some
reason it's hard for a lot of people i
don't know why i just like
you know there's there's i'll tell you
this from
like there's there's so little marginal
utility with money uh money only solves
money problems and then once you've
solved all your money problems you're
only left with problems money can't
solve and so a lot of us you know we
have we conflate the desire to grow with
the scoreboard
and i think it's important because
i think the sooner we can get to it just
being a game and realizing that it
doesn't matter at all
then you can be free of it because i
mean i used to really really torture
myself over this and when i was coming
up even with the first company with with
the gyms first and then the the sec the
first version of launch company even the
licensing company as it was growing up
it was very fueled with rage and proving
everyone wrong
and you know if the if the goal was to
accomplish like subjective well-being
then i think i was failing miserably out

46
00:45:00.000 --> 00:46:00.000
of yeah but i became wealthy in the
process and i think
naval talks about this which is why i i
resonate with his message which is like
i think you need
as much as in theory we could say hey we
can say we don't need money
[Music]
most people
need to become wealthy then become
healthy so that they could then uh
create the mental space
to figure out what they find meaningful
and i'll share one thing that really
messed with my mind um which i'll share
with your audience but a friend of mine
just sold his company for just under 200
million
and i was i asked him the same question
i said how do you create and destroy
meaning in your work
and you just like kind of paused and
looked at me and he's like why do you
think work needs to be meaningful
and i was like
and then i was like all right fine i was
like how do you you know create and
destroy meaning in your life and he was
like why do you think life needs to be
meaningful [ __ ] dude
right and so and so
right and so what's interesting is that
you get into this place or at least i
did for a while i don't i think i'm i'm

47
00:46:00.000 --> 00:47:00.000
i'm working through it right but it's
it's when you create
meaning as the new goal
you i just i changed the the goal post
right first it was it was it was a
monthly income then it was a yearly
income then it was after tax net worth
and i kept moving the goal post and now
it's like okay well not it's not the
money thing anymore it's meaning right
so i just i swear i even switched the
nature from tangible to intangible which
is even harder to accomplish right or
depending on right or depending on how
you see it easier to accomplish right
and so by creating meaning as the goal
post then everything i was doing every
day was like do i find this meaningful
do i find this meaningful um when in
reality what that does is creates a
deficit which
in order to have meaningful things you
need to have meaningless things yes and
so you can't only have meaningful things
because then nothing because then you
get back to like
anyways you get the idea um so we can
get really stuck in the stuff and i try
not to get too heady at times but i
think because i've created a lot of
space for myself in terms of
like i don't i don't do a tremendous
amount in the companies that we own

48
00:47:00.000 --> 00:48:00.000
um besides you know consulting with ceos
from time to time forced to think it
creates a great space to ask these
questions yeah you kind of are forced to
confront these things yeah um and you
have to because you know we're problem
solvers as as we are we just continue to
solve problems until we start we almost
start creating problems to solve
because we're so good at solving
problems right
more to for ourselves
damn and that's honestly why
you're talking about a lot of businesses
turn into personal development companies
because we end up solving a lot of the
problems we know how to solve and then
it's like well now it's we realize it's
like mindset and meaning and purpose and
all this [ __ ] that
is different for everyone in some ways
and so
we'll tell you what when i'm looking at
the companies that we're buying pieces
of now like i look far more now to the
character of the individual um and the
beliefs that i think they have about the
world
because the rest of the stuff honestly
i'll give you i'll give the audience a
nug
so i was talking to a friend of mine
they probably have a
just about 100 million portfolio
and
he was like yeah man one of our

49
00:48:00.000 --> 00:49:00.000
subsidiaries is a marketing based
company they do like marketing training
stuff like certifications
and
he was like every one of these companies
are like hey man if you can just help me
get more traffic
and he and i laughed because i was like
right if someone asked me how to get
more traffic i'm like go hire someone
who knows how to get traffic
and then he said the same thing we just
cracked up about it because like
the skills the doing part
once you gain a certain amount of
leverage it's just like we'll just find
the people who know how to do that now
you need to know what pieces uh to put
together and i would say even the
language the dialectics around how i
talk about business has changed as i
transition from ceo to kind of owner
investor
because i used to talk about building
businesses
and
now i talk about assembling businesses
and so it's really taking the pieces and
putting them together and then letting
them pursue that opportunity on your
behalf rather than saying i'm going to
build a business um and i think again
there's a lot of ways to skin it you
know you got bill gates and warren
buffett who were great friends and did
it wildly different ways yeah um i like
the warren buffett way personally uh

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more than the bill gates way
not to say there's anything wrong with i
think you made a a
a huge
generational changing company that
massively impacted the world um but i
like the boring businesses i like the
photography businesses i like the launch
the landscaping business it's like i
appreciate that stuff the the simpleness
of those and so i'm attracted to more of
those types of businesses and just
following the fundamentals and moving
the dials and just seeing big big
outcomes as a result so i know that was
long-winded but no no i love it and we
can talk on that all day and i'll be
respectful before i get you out of here
i gotta i gotta fire off the round of
random for you
uh first question
and none of these are really business
necessarily uh first if you could leave
where you're at right now let's just say
you're back in austin texas at your home
you're in vegas right now if you could
leave covet's not an issue wherever you
go and you could teleport where you
where are you heading
extended vacation
yeah i would i mean vegas i really
really really like that's why i just
we're gonna spend an extended time up
here uh i really love vegas but if it

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was like something different than that
then it would probably be
um fiji or bali mostly because i haven't
gone there because i just don't want to
make the trip but it looks beautiful and
so teleportation is that a bit easier
exactly so my time delay my time delay
and my effort and sacrifice are zero
increases
the utility yeah it increases the
utility of fiji for me love it if you
could have dinner with anyone in the
world i'm pretty sure i know this answer
living or dead who would it be
i'll give you top two so it would be
uh
yeah it'd be jeff bezos and warren
buffett
i'm sure you wouldn't go wrong there
where'd you guys at
wherever they wanted yeah right you
don't you don't get a whole lot of say
in this
all right if you could build any other
bids now we're saying build if you could
assemble any other business
can't be any of the ones you currently
have in your portfolio what would you be
or let's just phrase it differently what
are you interested in right now
that you could own that you don't
currently own

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i mean i like niche education companies
like that's what i like so that's what
i'm interested in i mean like more of
those just it's just different different
colors it's the plumbing version of gym
launch the the salon version the
photographer version i mean i'm doing
this exactly what i'm doing because
these are just companies that i
that i understand well um i understand
the monetization mechanism behind it i
understand what the customer journeys
looks like i know what the activation
points are on the front end i know what
the organization needs to look like i
know how we're going to ramp up across
channels i know what the offer structure
is like i just done it you know what i
mean and so yeah those are the companies
that uh
that i that i like i we did we've done
obviously the software thing um i think
that maybe i will get back to that maybe
like a decade or so okay um
but for right now building
acquisition.com bringing the portfolio
up with those types of companies is what
i
what i am enjoying a lot i love it love
it if you and i went to dinner
are you a food person are you a foodie
are you i know you eat the same three
meals every day or something but

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no no no i actually the same same
breakfast and lunch but then layla and i
go to dinner pretty much every night
we've got to dinner for you if you and i
went to dinner i'm paying anywhere in
the world what restaurant we going to
well if you're paying i'm paying
i'll give you top two uh it would either
be a tiny little persian restaurant um
so there's a chain in south california
called panini cafe
um it's probably one of my all-time
favorite restaurants it's not expensive
but it's just amazing food um and second
would probably be a restaurant in austin
called trulux
which has phenomenal seafood and uh
great steaks
and great drinks and the best carrot
cake uh on the planet really i'm a huge
carrot cake guys that works it is
phenomenal i've had i have i have carrot
cake every place that's on the menu
because of the carrot cake that i've had
there simply to compare it just i've had
a lot of carrots yeah and it's not
compared
it's still number one last question what
are you irrationally

54
00:53:00.000 --> 00:54:00.000
passionate about
just irrational if you have one
yeah
i like education
yeah you seem like the guy who's never
educated enough
always have to move the needle i just
yeah
on all aspects you know either my
personal learning but also just the
process of educating people the process
of learning
teaching skill
acquisition breaking
you know character trait development
those are all it's just like
which really just bundles down into
becoming how to how to become a
different person
and i think there's a lot of things
about myself that i hated for a very
long time and i just wanted to figure
out how i could not be or think that way
i love that brother thank you so much
man super humbled you came on gave your
wisdom as always keep putting out
content by the way is there a volume 2
coming out because you tease us with the
volume one on top
yeah there's actually going to be
yeah there's going to be ten actually um

55
00:54:00.000 --> 00:55:00.000
so
two i actually wrote the third one first
the second one second and i wrote the
one that you have now third okay so two
and three are written um they're kind of
like coats of paint um
i i usually write them pretty quickly
and then i go over them again and go
over them again and again and again and
rewrite them and rewrite them so nice
like the book that that you have right
there
i think i've rewrote that book
four times really and yeah i kept
getting shorter and shorter and and
really just
consolidating the thoughts and just
making it as streamlined as i could so
people could understand it having good
visuals and stories to try to make sure
people could remember it and drive the
points home and so the same thing like
the legion book right now i could
release it and i think it would do
really well but the difference between a
great book and a remarkable book um i
think is an ocean and so if the goal is
to create something that i can put one
time effort into and it has compounding
returns then i should put an outsized
effort on the front end into it and if i
do it right then hopefully it'll have

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the same or a higher reception than the
first book did incredible we'll go get
his book everyone go to amazon and type
in 100 million offers or
make it easy on you click the link below
or type in sales driven agency dot com
forward slash alex go buy it remember to
do a review and send me a screenshot the
podcast sales revenue.com
i'll hire your next salesperson for free
alex thank you man appreciate you
brother
appreciate you thank you so much for
having me of course

