https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMs0sxYdG2I&ab_channel=BiggerPockets

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this is the bigger pockets podcast show
6 49. like so they have to just figure
out a way to tie whatever the thing if
they're really passionate about
something by all means go all in on if
you're i.t then you're thinking how can
i decrease page load times how can i get
conversion rates up you start getting
into the cro side how can i organize the
data in such a way that the ceo can make
better decisions and we have real-time
reporting against all the sales guys so
we can optimize our funnels towards the
best converting guys right like all of
all aspects of the business can make
more money but people don't think about
it through that lens so the first thing
is how do i tie what i do every day to
making more money in the business you
connect that dot and then you improve
that connection what's going on everyone
this is david green your host of the
bigger pockets podcast here today with a
special treat we have an amazing guest
who i think probably brought his best
performance that i've ever heard him do
online here today joining me is my
co-host rob robelts abasolo to take down
this awesome interview with me rob why
don't you tell people about our guest
since i know that you are a huge huge
fan and then tell us what you like about
the show yeah that's right so we had

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00:01:00.000 --> 00:02:00.000
alex hormozy on who is somewhat of the
uh the youtube poster child for
entrepreneurs everywhere
i started noticing him popping up about
uh i wanna say like six twelve months
ago when my channel was growing and man
i just really gravitated towards all of
his videos because he puts a lot of
information there on how to scale
business mindsets how to manage people
and uh yeah we get into a lot of the
nitty-gritty there of scaling from zero
to one million dollars one million to
three million three to thirty million
dollars and honestly i felt like for as
big of a fan i was i didn't fanboy too
hard i don't think it came through so i
think i kind of held it down no i
thought you did a great job and alex
really did most of the heavy lifting in
this one he
breaks down some of the struggles that
i'm having in business and that rob is
having as well he gave us
a kind of a cool origin story of where
he started and what he would have done
differently as he built himself up to a
net worth of i think he said over 150
million it was a lot 100 million yep big
several businesses that he's built and

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sold and what he learned from that the
struggle of scaling and how you need to
learn how to hire and how your ego can
get in the way and wanting to hire the
right people building funnels both for
leads and for hiring like all stuff that
many real estate investors trying to
scale their business are struggling with
right now
probably worth several hundred thousand
dollar like if you had to pay alex to
get him to tell this to you specifically
be very expensive and you're all getting
it for free here on today's show before
we bring alex in to blow your mind
today's quick tip
alex talks a lot about how you need to
invest in yourself before everything
else he actually says you should
continue to pour your money into growing
yourself and increasing revenue before
you do anything else i highly recommend
that you consider investing in yourself
before you invest in stocks bonds
treasury notes cryptocurrency whatever
it is that's fun don't forget to invest
in yourself and if it's the right fit
for you you can try that out by visiting
biggerpockets.com and checking out the
rookie bootcamp so if you are new and

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00:03:00.000 --> 00:04:00.000
wanting to learn how to invest in real
estate they have a course set up for you
where you can show and one of us bigger
pockets personalities will be teaching
you specifically how to invest in
different asset classes that you might
be interested in so head over to the
website and check that out rob anything
you want to say before we get started no
no this is a really inspirational for me
because i never knew that there was
someone that liked chipotle more than me
but uh alex actually might top this and
we'll get into that towards the end of
the episode so stay tuned all right
let's bring in alex alexey welcome to
the bigger pockets podcast great to have
you thank you for having me very honored
to be here yeah so uh for anyone who's
been living under a rock and hasn't
heard about your astronomical success
amazing insight that you're giving to
small business owners would you mind
giving us a background of where you
started and where you are right now all
right i'll give the the world's shortest
uh
play-by-play milestones uh so i was a
management consultant uh went to
vanderbilt graduated did defense
contracting for two years really didn't

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like it got my top secret clearances
sounded sexy on paper it wasn't cool in
real life uh
wanted to leave baltimore went to west
coast started a gym
um slept on the floor for the first nine
months was able to figure it out by
month 15 we had our second location
every six months after that opened a new
one had six locations uh had lots of gym
owners started asking me hey how did you
grow so fast um and so i started helping
those guys out uh i ended up doing gym
turn around so i'd fly out to a gym fill
it up fix it etc we did 32 or 33
turnarounds over the next two years
um and then from there i sold my six
gyms and then transitioned from the
turnaround flying out guys to jim's
business to a licensing model because it
was more scalable
and so that was 2017 we transitioned to
licensing
uh that business uh scaled to
uh i think 37 million a year um
with very good margins and then uh we
started a supplement company prestige
labs which we sold through our
distribution base we had 4 500 locations
from there we started allen which was a
software that worked leads for brick and

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mortar businesses of any kind
we exited all three of those businesses
one to a strategic buyer for the
software
and the other two as a package deal to
uh american pacific group which is
private equity firm uh just that one was
46 million the other one uh i'm not
allowed to disclose it but i can tell
you that we did 12 million top line the
year before uh we sold it for the
software company it was an all stock
deal
what it was that was that was last year
we started acquisition.com 2020 which
became our holding company uh for our
portfolio uh right now the portfolio
does north of 150 million dollars a year
i i'm only going to timestamp this it is
currently july of 2022 because people
hear these clips later and they're like
you said or like i know we grow that's
why the numbers change um but you know
at this moment uh 100 north of 150
million a year portfolio revenue uh
between our companies um we specialize
in
in high cash flow uh service businesses
and things of that nature so it sounds
like you started the gym business you
jumped into it you pursued excellence in
that area you learned sales techniques

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the psychology behind how you get people
to do things then you learn business
techniques how to run a profitable
business you took the step that most
people never take when they hit that
point you said how do i scale this and
took on bigger and more difficult
problems to solve you started solving
other people's problems constantly
helping them to do more and then once
you hit this point of big success you
said okay now what synergy do i have i
can go sell supplement products because
i understand fitness people trust me and
then you solve a new problem and you
said okay now i can have a software
company that's going to help manage this
and you sort of just spread in this like
synergistic way rather than i'm gonna go
start a gym and then i'm gonna go start
a car wash and then i'm gonna go start
something like a loan brokerage or
something completely unrelated is that
more or less a good summary of your
approach yeah i definitely did a whole
bunch of things that i probably wouldn't
do again and probably would have done it
necessarily in that order etcetera a lot
of things were more difficult than they
should have been but yes that was 100
they were synergistic in nature i felt
like i was leaving money on the table
and so i took those opportunities if i
could do it again i wouldn't have done
it that way but um they were still
obviously very good outcomes but i feel

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like i've learned so since then yeah i
don't think there's too many people that
would be in a position to criticize how
it turned out for you i think
if anyone is actually i i've got notes
i've got lots of notes
on today's episode rob is going to tear
apart alex's business strategy and teach
him what he should have done instead all
right well thank you for for sharing
that i really appreciate it uh you are
an incredibly intelligent man and i'm
not saying that to butter you up i'm
just saying i take a lot of what you say
it's not fluff it is very very practical
well thought out uh the type of advice
you only get from trying and failing a
lot and then figuring out okay this is
what actually works it's kind of like
listening to a gracie talk about jiu
jitsu that's the same feeling that i get
when i'm listening to you talk about
business so before we get into today's
show we actually have a fun game that
we're going to play it's going to be
called mosie nation or mozy imitation oh
so in today's episode rob and i are
going to try to guess if a fact about
you is true or not and then you are

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going to let us know which one was right
and we're going to see who wins this is
great i'm so excited all right
i feel i feel pretty confident i do
watch some some mozy uh youtube video so
i think i got this one in the bag yeah
he's been practicing he's been
researching this so that he could win so
we'll see we'll see if talent or
preparation wins out here
you guys can figure out which one of us
is the talent based on what we've said
so far
all right no fact number one alex and
laila hormozy met on a dating app rob
what say you i think i'm gonna go uh no
i think i'll go no they did not meet uh
on a dating app
what okay they did beat on bumble so i
was going to say no so oh my bad i think
you have a chance it's okay
i did confuse you there the reason i
didn't answer right away is i remembered
hearing a interview that you were
talking about i can't remember who it
was with but i remember you talking
about your relationship with her and how
you were super busy and there was a time
she came in the room and she was like do
you want to break up and you're like
yeah whatever like okay and then
at some point you needed help on a

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business deal she went out there she
absolutely crushed it for you and it
sort of like had a paradigm shift like
oh maybe this person's a little more
special to me than what i thought which
i frankly love that you shared that
information because this is something
dudes go through all the time and we
never want to talk about we want to look
like batman we just show up and you know
everything goes well but that's not how
real life works out so i was trying to
remember if you had mentioned the dating
app or not
all right that one all right all right i
was gonna stay in the gym for sure but
all right i'll get it on this one it's
all good
fact number two alex spent seventy five
thousand dollars for four private phone
calls with grant cardone
true i'm gonna go with true as well that
just sounds like something that alex
would have done whoever made the
question it was a little tricky i spent
a hundred and thirty five thousand
dollars we're both wrong there we go
remember exactly directly but yeah i do
remember right directionally correct
i'll take it yes did you let me ask you
this did you get more value out of the
content of the calls or the relationship
you built with grant if any relationship
honestly both um
i got
i got more than that in value very

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easily i got that more than that from
the first first phone call it makes a
lot of sense why you to talk to him with
the way that you've scaled like he's
kind of the scaling expert in the
business field right now in america yeah
in in organic branding which i had not
done and so i figured you know i i
couldn't get in touch with gary um and
grant was willing to take the call so i
was like hey man um i have all the means
just what do you just lay out the plan
how would you do it and he just kind of
laid out what he thought i should do and
i was like okay cool i'll do that so it
worked well hey man if you ever need
advice i charge 120 cents per call so
just let me know and we can get it set
up i'm on van mosel like all the major
outlets
all right question or fact number three
alex emailed himself all of his failures
for the last five years
i think i'll go true on that
not from something anecdotally that i
know but it does seem like something you
would do
um
i could see and then i could see how you
like use that to fuel your success i'ma

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go yes on that one i'm gonna shoot with
yes but not for any of the reasons rob
said it's because i watched alex's uh
micro expression when we asked the
questions i'm just going to read him
completely
that was um
that was how i yeah that's how i
remembered the the lessons yep that'll
keep you humble too and that's i mean
something we could talk about later on
in the show
purposely pursuing humility when you're
having massive success is absolutely in
my opinion like crucial like it's not
something that just happens you have to
make an intentional effort to stay in a
humble place when it feels like
everything that you're you're doing is
just falling in line perfectly so i can
see that would be very wise
all right number four alex starts his
mornings with a hot sauna and an ice
bath
you go first
i'm gonna go with no i think he only
does the ice bath because a hot sauna
would be too comforting and that just
seems like something that
alex would not reward himself with
comfort before he earned it throughout

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the day i'm gonna go yes because i know
uh that you wake up at four
and that's a lot of time you talk about
how you get most done before people get
like more done in those hours than
people do all week and it's very time
consuming to take ice baths and sit in
the sauna so i'm gonna go yes no i uh i
wake up i drink a cup of coffee and i
work it's my morning
also a great answer
i love that man there's certain trends
that you pick up on when you follow
people in this business taste that
everyone starts saying it because
everyone else said it like one of the
really common ones that i noticed was
mark zuckerberg was credited with saying
i wear the same shirt every day because
then i don't have to think about what
i'm gonna wear and i am so incredibly
beyond your level that that that i don't
even have mental energy to spare to pick
out my shirt and we were like oh that
sounds good say that like i'm gonna
start doing that too and everyone
started wearing the same shirt and i
heard him on an interview with garyvee
and he said yeah i just said that
because really i'm not good at dressing
myself and it sounded better than
admitting i don't pick out clothes and i

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was like how many of us have been
repeating this as this business maxim
that's super
and he's like yeah i made the whole
thing up so there's a lot of things like
that like the ice bath in the morning
the the
waking up super early which i think is
really good especially if you're in a
competitive environment where you're
competing with others for business but
like if you're just someone who writes
books it doesn't really give you an
advantage because then you got to go to
bed at 8 o'clock at night it's it's sort
of a similar situation so i really
appreciate you admitting that you're not
doing it just because everyone else says
they are i could
go hard on that question
well let's start with that like let's
hear your opinion if you think that i'm
way off here i think it's a big pile of
gobbledygook man i mean the amount of
stuff that that is espoused by the tick
tock gurus of wealth and finance is
insanity you know you've got the cold
plunges the the finger tissues the
yellow glasses the affirmations in the
morning the the gratitude journal it's
like by the time you do that you're
already halfway through your day and you
haven't done anything and so if you
break this down to like a first
principles thinking it's like okay in
order for me to do more i must do more

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anything that is not me doing more is
detracting from my ability to do
and so period you know like that's it
and so
time thinking about doing time
procrastinating doing time recovering
like all those things are just not
things that are you doing so i think the
ability to work itself is trainable and
so if people like feel like they need
that prep beforehand then i think that
is something that is a crutch that can
be eliminated and then ultimately make
you more productive
not because you have some hack but
simply because you just put more time in
i do love the simplicity of that it's
really just kind of breaking it all
through and it's just like oh it's just
this one really simple thing and i
remember i watched one of your videos
that was like my 100 million dollar diet
or something and then you talked about
how you went into a room with a bunch of
ceos one had wheatgrass shots and then
the other one was like meditating in the
corner and then you're eating twizzlers
and they're like what are you doing bro
and then you basically broke down how
all diets are sham and it shams and it
basically comes down to calorie deficits
and that ever since then i'm like okay i
need to stop i need to stop micro
counting it's just calorie deficit i

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mean obviously i don't want to
oversimplify but
it was just like how funny it's just
like these perceptions really cloud our
minds and it's just like much more
simple than what we think a lot of the
times i had a mentor who's told me this
this
this chord it's a two-minute story and i
think it it's very memorable it's don't
be cute right he was like you know he
was from long island he's like you know
when i used to play backyard football i
was like yeah sure he's like yeah so you
know you got
everybody wants to be fancy you know got
that
you know we're going to flip it to timmy
and then timmy's going to reverse this
way and then we're going to fake it and
then we're going to go longer what
happens you drop the ball and then it's
fumble and you lose the odds he's like
nah we're talking fundamentals football
put the two fat guys in the middle run
to the right
and uh
and and he was like don't be cute and he
was telling me this because i was
talking about this idea that i had for
for jim lunch in terms of one of the
a new initiative that i wanted to take
and he was like don't be cute man he's
like just do more what you're doing
and um i feel like there's a lot of
truth to that in terms of like people
over complicate things that they already
know because the truth is too difficult

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to
stomach
right so it's like they wanna they don't
wanna accept that they should just eat
less and move more and so they wanna
come up with a hundred ways to be cute
rather than just confronting the fact
they just need to eat less and move more
and like they don't want to confront the
fact that they just need a work
and so then they're like i'm gonna do
all these things to prepare myself to
work right and get myself in the right
zen and like have an attitude of
abundance aurora and like read my
affirmations and do my daily journal and
all this stuff and it's like dude the
work the doing needs doing so it's just
who's going to do it you know you know i
have a theory on that that um like our
audience is particularly susceptible to
these gurus that say i will teach you
how to make a million dollars by taking
my hundred thousand dollar course and
once you take this course you're gonna
go out there and you're gonna flip 40
houses a year by showing you how i do it
and even if they gave you the
information to flip 40 houses a year
you're not in shape to jump onto that
level of a workout it would be like if
the rock said i will show you my workout
that doesn't mean you can go do his
workout it takes time to build the

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skills that you would need to accomplish
that and it's that uh like
whenever someone's being taken advantage
of there is a part of them that is
making them vulnerable to that because
like you said it's they don't want to do
the work they're either lazy or they're
greedy or there's
some component of that that isn't what
they don't want to accept it's the case
and i feel like this is why we there's
constantly a new diet or a new trend or
a new something and if you're the person
that sells that to people they'll buy it
you'll make a bunch of money and then
it's funny because now you actually have
money and so you can show that your
system worked but you didn't do it by
working the system you did it by selling
other people on what they could be doing
which is i really like you because you
took the opposite approach you went in
there and built these gyms and grinded
to learn these things and then you said
okay here's what i've learned after
everything i've done and i love that
don't be cute approach it's just this is
the fundamentals this is how it works to
do this better it definitely wasn't a
new opportunity we were just like so one
of the things that we we call database
marketing but
when we work with a portfolio company
especially if they're in the education
space one of the first systems that we

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implement is is data tracking or
customer success and so you know we have
activation points that we want to track
we know that you know if someone does
xyz by day 30 or whatever the likely
that they you know stay or a set goes up
you know threefold whatever um and so
what happens is then we can make
substantiated claims based on based on
what we can observe and so the more data
we collect we can say hey of the people
who actually send you know a thousand
emails to uh to prospective homeowners
uh
the people who do that on average four
out of five of them will close the deal
in their first 45 days and so then it
gives people prescriptions of activation
it's like i can't guarantee that you're
going to do it but i can give you the
data to support what actions are going
to create the outcome and so then you
can start reworking marketing message
rather than being another guy who's
making the same promise you just say hey
again i'm not making the promise i'm
just telling you what's happened and
then you can make your own decision
based on that
and that's how i prefer and it also
gives you unlimited amounts of kind of
marketing angles and hooks because once
you have data you can talk the top 20 of
the bottom 20 the median the average you
can talk about people who do xyz add

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contingencies to you know the claims
that you make and it gives you an
unlimited way but it all starts with
actually focusing on the customer and
making sure that they're getting what
they're supposed to uh you know be
right yeah so i i like this a lot though
don't be cute and i am a frequent uh
watcher of your youtube channel and it's
a very raw channel where you sit you
talk about life life lessons that you've
gone through um and i really like that i
really appreciate
you basically you leave it all out there
for people to kind of take and apply to
their life so
one of the things that i hear you talk
about really often
you know is scaling and that seems to be
somewhat of your specialty i know that
there's different tiers of kind of
scaling companies right there's the um
the first million the million to three
million and then three million to 30
million so i was kind of hoping we could
dive into that a little bit because i
think a lot of people in the bigger
pockets audience they're trying to get
to that first million dollars right and
we want to really dive into some of
those concepts and what's needed to
really hit that million dollar mark in

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the company so do you think you could
just sort of walk us through those
different tiers starting with that first
how do we get to that golden egg of a
million dollars for a business i'll
actually even break it down to six
figures too because i was asked on a
different podcast about

**six figures** and
it actually it's even simpler so uh you
know to get started you have to sell
something to someone that's it
like literally that's all *one avatar one
product one channel* that's it so you
have one way of getting customers you
sell one thing to one specific type of
person that is all you need to do to get
to six figures
to get to **seven figures you need to
learn how to do those three things 
reliably  consistently right so you
know how to sell one product one avatar
on one channel in a consistent manner so
you start having predictive metrics** on
how you can acquire customers so it's
either i spend this amount of money on
advertising and this is how many you
know calls to get booked and then from
that many calls i get that many you know
sales etc uh if it's outbound it's like
i send this many emails or make this
many calls or this many texts and then
spending you know reply back this many
scheduled this many show this many
clothes etc if you're running organic

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00:21:00.000 --> 00:22:00.000
it's i know that i need to have this
many posts that i have to make across
these different channels with call to
actions that drive towards this page for
every thousand visitors on this page i
get why opt-ins well you know what i
mean so each of these
vehicles or i have to hit my email list
you know once a week and if i hit it
once a week with a call to action again
so all these are the different ways you
can get customers you could also do
affiliates you can do referrals there's
many ways to do it but the point is you
pick one avatar one channel and one
product and then as soon as you can
start predictively uh
as soon as you can start predicting
how many inputs it takes to get an
output then you get to a million right
and at that point you're you know one
two three million is a year uh one to
three you have to build out your core
team so that's usually like the first
five hires first five to ten ish that
are it depends on the on the
on the ticket of the thing that's being
sold you know if you're selling twenty
five thousand dollar things versus five
hundred dollar things
the the team size is gonna be different
but it's the core team at about three
million and that's usually that's the
reason that we take companies on at

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three is usually there because because
there's a core team and at three million
there's product market fit so they've
demonstrated that people want this thing
and they have enough support that we can
take them from three to ten three to ten
uh and this is interesting because it's
a mistake a lot of people make it three
and i can stop whenever you want me to
cut the lines of the problems that come
up but the problems that come up at
three ish um
are that
people start getting cute right and they
start saying and here's what's difficult
is that you get reinforced on the fact
that the more you market the more you
sell the more money you make
right and it's true and you can
scale from there by doing more sales and
more marketing and that is what the vast
majority of the industry will do because
they got reinforced doing it early the
problem is that they switch the
objectives the objective of the first
phase of business which for me is like
zero to three is just to demonstrate
product market fit and an acquisition
channel that is profitable that is the
objective now
at this point we transition objectives
to increasing lifetime value per
customer so this is improving customer
experience putting data tracking in
place um if there's an ascension

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opportunity that makes sense we need to
build out that product or service line
so that and this is the big point so
that when we do choose to add another
channel or expand on our current channel
we can do so more profitably right where
if you just sell a single product that
might not have as much ltv as you would
you know you would want
as you scale or put more in
your margins begin to compress so you
might go up to 10 million but your
margins have compressed over time and
then you get in this place where you
have to keep selling to maintain your
overhead but you're not really taking
enough home and you can't have enough
cash free cash flow to grow the business
and so sometimes it's like you have to
take the step back fix the product fix
the customer experience fix the service
fix the data fix the infrastructure that
everything's built on probably hire and
fire some people that you promoted a
little bit too early that didn't have
the experience because they're actually
not actually running things that well um
and then once we fix that stuff then
honestly going from 3 to 10 usually
almost happens on its own
once we're at 10
then we go far more aggressively on the
acquisition side which is you know the
easiest moniker that i use is more
better new so we do more what we're

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currently doing until we max that out
and then we do better of what we're
currently doing is there any cro
opportunities so conversion rate
optimization can we switch this headline
out can we change this lead magnet can
we can we implement some of the best
practices that we know to get you know
more people to show up if it's a service
business if it's a if it's a products
business i only focus on service
businesses so a lot to me a lot of our
stuff is over the phone um can we change
the
the video sales letters and the
follow-up emails things like that all
the improvements that can happen
um
and then different is okay or new is can
we add a new channel to this so we have
six that we can choose from to get new
customers we've got we've got we can hit
up our own lists we can do cold cold
outbound we can do content we can do
paid ads we can do affiliates and we can
do referrals and so those are the only
six ways to get new customers we look at
those six and say of the skills that we
currently have
which of these would make the most sense
to add to it and you can even go adding
a new thing within a current so if
you're running paid ads it's like going
from facebook to youtube or going from
facebook to tick tock and so there's you
know each each one of those six squares
has
channels or media channels that you can

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or platforms that you can tap into that
give you new audiences so that was a
little bit of a crash course there but
that's what allows you to scale from 10
to 30 and beyond um at 30ish the
the founders typically will start
feeling constrained because they are the
juju behind the entire business and
please cut me off if i'm starting to
bore you guys um but at 30ish is when
it's it's it stops being about the
founder not that it was about the
founder to begin with but like you can
will your way to 30 but at some point
like right around there there's like
just oh you get spread too thin and so
and this was a mist i stayed
i know uh
okay i'll stop the the point the point
is is that you need more you need more
stallions right and so you have to find
more people who can drive things like
you do and so this is where employee
compensation and recruiting become
paramount to getting to the next level
because you need to bring people in
who've already won the olympic gold
who've already run this race multiple
times at companies just like yours but
bigger and better and then have them
come and run the playbook for you so

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that you're not driving it but someone
else's and so that's where like
compensation and recruiting becomes
really important so you can incentivize
people who
who deserve to have that level of
compensation and that's you get to you
know it's a nine figures plus
okay all right well i think we're we
probably just end the podcast there
right just kidding we we've got a lot to
cover on this so
let's talk about the the first million
because that that seems to be where a
lot of people are in all of this so you
talked about in your first million
you're kind of identifying a few things
it's going to be your avatar which is
going to be your customer profile who is
your customer profile but then you also
mentioned your one channel can you
explain that do you mean the one channel
that you're marketing or the one channel
that you're
yeah explain that do you mean like
youtube like social channel give us a
little bit more on that yeah so there's
um
there's three variables right so you got
platform you've got you've got media
um and then you've got the content right
of whatever you're marketing so
you just have to pick one of those three
things together so i told you about six
ways to get new customers just now right

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so there's six ways to get your
customers you pick one you double click
on that and it's like okay within there
if i do cold outbound am i going to do
cold call am i going to do cold text
called dms cool emails all of those
would be one platform right so one
method and then you've got the platform
that you're doing it on and then you
pick the type of media that you want to
send do i want to send a voice memo do i
want to send a text i want to send a
handwritten card do i want to you know i
mean like depends on the platform
because some platforms you can send
multiple types of media some of them you
can only send one um and so you pick one
channel which is all those things
together which is just a fancy word for
a pathway for a stranger to become a
customer right so we pick a pathway for
a stranger become a customer and we
focus on that one thing and do you feel
that
for breaking your first million the
entrepreneur that's in this journey
is that kind of like the loneliest phase
of the company
because i feel like for me you know i
i was alone for a lot of it in terms of
just in the weeds of my own businesses
and i really didn't start hiring until
breaking the threshold of that in my
businesses is that a pretty common
sentiment you think or

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is it you know like do you do people
have like well-established teams and
that's how they get to a million um no i
mean at a million it's usually a few
hires a few contractors you know it
depends again on the the number of units
sold to get to a million you know
because you got to make 83k a month you
got to make 20k a week right so 20k a
week if you're selling 20k things it's
like you're selling four clients a month
like that's pretty easy to manage if
you're selling you know
a hundred dollar things you got to sell
200 clients a week so it's a little bit
harder
again if it's a physical products
business then it's going to be mostly
like support and if you're the media
buyer slash marketer then you know you
can probably manage an e-commerce but
again it just depends on the type of
business
but i would say from a zoom out
perspective i think all
all seasons of entrepreneurship have
elements of loneliness and i think that
it changes i think in the beginning it's
a lot harder because you're really
competitive not that
you're really competitive against other
people rather than being competitive
against yourself and so like in the
beginning you're like this guy ripped
off my
this guy's blah blah you have all this
like finger pointing and i was just on a

30
00:29:00.000 --> 00:30:00.000
podcast with ed mylett and we had a
really good conversation about it but
like
the 20-year club you know i mean like
i'm only in the decade club right but
like you know five years in 80 of people
are gone right so it's like okay it's a
little bit friendlier at 10 years you
know at least for me like i have no i
just know how big the big the world is
and so
if there's i remember when i was
starting out with jim launch
i thought about doing a weight loss
business uh because we were good at
weight loss and that was actually what
ended up we decided to do the weight
loss business and that's when i pivoted
uh and i told the guys uh the gyms that
we're gonna do their turnarounds the
next month that we weren't gonna do it
and the guys were like well can you just
show me how to do it i was like fine
i'll show you how to do it and i sold
them just kind of like a licensing of
all my all my my ads and all my pages
and everything that i already built out
and tested and then that ended up being
you know that became gym launch and
became way bigger than the little weight
loss thing that we had but when i
started doing weight loss just for a few
weeks a buddy of mine who was in weight
loss came up to me and said
yo if you do weight loss we can't be
friends
he was doing like 150 grand a month i

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was like dude it's a 60 billion dollar
industry like we can't both do weight
loss he's like dude i was doing weight
loss first i was like bro i had six gyms
i've been doing weight loss since when
you were 17. you know what i mean um
that's crazy that's crazy that he
invented the concept of weight loss like
you know that guy that's so cool it's
right
and so i say that because like it sounds
ridiculous and that guy ended up
becoming very very successful too and he
like later on was like dude i was just i
don't know sorry you know because you're
so afraid it's just fear you're just so
afraid that that something's gonna go
wrong that you just want to like hold on
and clench and just and just point at
everybody else when it just like it just
isn't about you you know i mean it's
just like if you can serve your
customers you'll have business it
doesn't matter what the competition is
doing and the market's so big you know
what i mean so anyways i think that's
why it's lonely but like it's lonely at
my point too just in a different way
it's lonely because there's just not
that many people that i can talk to who
are you know dealing with the same
things right so
do you feel because that that makes
sense for me like i've been in a lot of

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moments like that where it's rare to to
connect with someone that's going
through the
exact
kind of very nuanced thing that you're
going through how
how like have you found people in your
journey that you've have connected in
that way and like how does one even find
that because i think that is really
tough for a lot of people to to find
some that really grasp what they're
saying uh on a personal level so to talk
on one of the points that we were
talking about in the game show earlier
i'm a huge huge huge huge proponent of
alternative education
i love i love the education businesses i
love guru businesses
i mean
i i love them comma as long as they're
being done well and promising the
correct thing and really focused on the
product and the customer
um i love that and fundamentally like
guru businesses are just education
businesses and they are sprouting all
over the place because the demand is
unmet by the formal education system and
the demand is for skills that make money
and people are not getting them but the
demand is not going away if anything

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that's grown because people are seeing
on social media all these other people
making money and they're like this is
possible and so in one good way i think
instagram and all that stuff has made
more people believe that they can do it
the downside is obviously whenever you
have upside you've got an equal opposite
reaction of people who are scamming
people and things like that and i think
that the difference between a scam and
somebody who is trying to deliver is
intention i think there are many
well-hearted or well-intentioned
educators who are really trying to do a
good job but they are poor teachers just
like there are people who love to teach
our teachers and we're terrible at
teaching math and you probably had them
but they really wanted to help and they
just weren't that good at it and so i
have a little bit more of a heart for
for both sides of the equation here but
i do think that education is the way and
how did i find people i asked and i was
willing to have people say no and
real real very few people said no to me
my whole journey um and i think it was
because the way that i asked was i
didn't ask i went and said hey
this is all the stuff i'm good at and
then i would just prepare stuff and i'll
do work ahead of time to help them with
their business
and i would just get on a call and be
like here's all the value i could
possibly deliver to you and then if it

34
00:33:00.000 --> 00:34:00.000
was anybody worth anything because
winners give back
they were like dude this was i was not
expecting this um dude what can i do for
you i'd be like okay i really have this
question do you know how to do this
thing and they're like no but i know a
guy and i'll put you guys together and
so
i like my first mastermind i was a part
of i got voted member of the year with
like 100 internet marketers and i was an
internet marketer because i didn't know
anything about internet marketing which
was ridiculous i joined it because i
wanted to learn and so i just only thing
i knew then was sales and so all of that
i rewrote so many scripts for guys in
that community because it was the only
thing i was good at and so they're like
wow this is awesome and then they would
help me out and i was like how do i make
the landing page to an opt-in thing and
they would sit there and they would show
me how to do it and that's how i learned
like i did not i learned like this like
you and me on the phone right here this
is how i learned and i paid dearly for
that because i didn't buy that many
courses i actually bought way more
one-on-one and i bought a lot of my
one-on-one by doing work for other
people for free

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yeah i uh i can definitely relate with
the the opt-in form and connecting into
the landing page when i when i first
launched my my very first program that
was the hardest week of my life because
i did all the tech and all the marketing
and all the content and all the editing
and all the copywriting and it hurt my
brain you know but at the end of it i
was like okay and so i'm a really big
proponent of learning all this stuff
and mastering it before i can delegate
it out to somebody else because i just
want to know that they are good at what
they're doing but i feel like that's not
necessarily super sustainable
as the organization grows and i think
you kind of mentioned this earlier where
you said
once you start scaling up you have to
start hiring these stallions or people
that are better than you at certain
functions
i struggle with that not because i think
i'm smarter than everybody but i'm just
always like no one knows it the way i
know it um
at what point is that is that a
limiting belief that that is difficult
to shake your entire journey are you
pretty good at

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00:35:00.000 --> 00:36:00.000
breaking free from that that limiting
belief yeah 100
limiting belief i mean it's it's
prideful to think that no one can do
something better than you
so
a lot of times what happens is people
hire people who've never done the thing
and then are like oh my god i'm better
than this person it's like well
obviously they've never done it before
hire someone who's significantly better
than you who's done that thing for a
very long time a comma who's not also
running every other department of the
business and you'll be amazed at how
much somebody can do and so um in the
beginning though just to be clear it is
normal for people to have to learn all
the basics right like entrepreneurship
in the beginning is very much
you know master of all trades you know
what is jack of all trades master of
none um like that's very much the
beginning you have to just be good
enough at everything you don't have to
be great you just have to be good enough
to get it done and get the first dollar
across the bridge from there you start
to begin to get more leverage and so the
entire conversation of scaling and
entrepreneurship about two things
control and leverage and so the control
component is that you have it's a
consistent relinquishing of control as
you move up the leverage ladder right
because you can't see every email that

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00:36:00.000 --> 00:37:00.000
goes out you can't approve every post
you can't review every sales call you
can't
you know make every video that's going
to be in your in your course from what
you're saying right like you can't make
every one of those things and the person
who's making it in the beginning might
not be as good as you but the question
is are they good enough and so it like
and that's why organizations improve
over time because like you have to scale
with good enough until you can replace
it with better because you have more
leverage because you have more cash flow
you can attract better people you can
fix the culture et cetera et cetera and
so um the whole concept of moving up in
entrepreneurship is trading your time
for increasing amounts of money and so
if we are
if we're defining leverage as getting
more for what you put in right inputs
and outputs into systems the discrepancy
between the two is the leverage um
if that's the leverage in the system we
try and use more leverage and the first
four version of that is is labor right
and so that's the lowest form of
leverage that we can use and so we we
hire people to do things for us so that
we can have time back to do more more
valuable things and your in your
experience alex do you feel that

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00:37:00.000 --> 00:38:00.000
the skill of hiring well
is a a really big
hurdle that people have to overcome is
this one of the bigger problems or is it
not as big as i'm thinking in my mind it
is the problem yeah it is the biggest
problem so think about this from a
purely theoretical standpoint
if you understood what was required in a
business like what has to happen for a
business to succeed
and then all you did was put the people
in place to have that happen then you
would not need to work
and so the reason that things are not
happening is because the people are not
doing the things and so for our ability
as entrepreneurs to select so first
attract recruit hire manage and ascend
slash keep uh talent
at
the higher up you go in the business the
more leverage you have on how much money
in your time you make it all becomes
about recruiting and so you might like
this from a from a real estate
perspective but you know
you can buy or you can build that's kind
of an m a thing right so like if we have
a new division that we want to get into
we can either build the thing from

39
00:38:00.000 --> 00:39:00.000
scratch or we can buy it but if you if
you zero down at a micro level you can
either build talent or you can buy it
and so it's much faster to buy talent
and so i think one of the things that
people overestimate this is a quote from
my wife but she says everyone everyone
thinks they're a good judge of character
until they get judged by the people they
hire
and so
uh it's a
little mic drop for you um
but it's true right yeah it's true and
so um if we're judging if we're being
judged based on the people we hire i
would say that in my experience
the objective
facts have worked better and so
track record
and case study analysis on before they
start so it's like if i want to hire a
video editor for example to cut content
then i want to look at their track
record show me the stuff that you've
already done and that you've been doing
this for a long time for people just
like me trying to get to where i want to
go those are all nuances and what i just
said
the second piece is hey
here's some raws this is what i want go
make stuff and then i can have 10 guys

40
00:39:00.000 --> 00:40:00.000
compete and the thing is is that there's
so much psychological bias of like i
like this guy he looks the way i look
blah blah blah that we don't let the
work do the talking and so the more
objective we can be about it so in that
way i really do believe in being like
colorblind and all that kind of stuff
when it comes to recruiting talent
because like talent comes in all forms
and so all i really care about is the
productivity the output of the person
and so i think for me that's been the
easiest thing this is much more lay-less
department um but in terms of like how
we scale businesses in acquisition.com
we consider recruiting to be our core
and number one competency because at
three million what what the business
lacks is talent
and so what we do because it's usually
one founder that's breathing life into
this thing with lots of little helpers
it's a genius with a thousand hands
and of course if you remove the genius
that's there's nothing right that's most
businesses and most businesses aren't
worth anything because they're not
businesses they're very they're
leveraged jobs
and so
what we do is we look at the needs of
the business and then we recruit people
who've done the thing already and can
demonstrate that they can solve the
specific problem that we're facing and
the nice thing is that if you are hiring

41
00:40:00.000 --> 00:41:00.000
somebody you should have a problem they
should be solving and so the problem
sitting in front of you and you're like
hey head of marketing
fix my marketing on the job interview
and two things happen either they don't
know how to do it or they do know how to
do it and they teach you stuff and so
during the interview process if you're
not learning from the person that you're
supposed to hire to take the job from
you then they're gonna work as a subset
of your knowledge because you know more
than them which means you need to train
them and so you're not buying talent
you're building it again but you might
be paying buying it price for building
it work which is not the trade we want
to make so anyways i could talk about
that longer but that's fundamentally
that's how you scale you're you're
making me very uncomfortable because i'm
realizing as you're talking here that i
tend to lean towards the uh i want to
coach this person up they have a great
attitude they want to learn they're like
whatever you want i'll go do it and then
i actually not only am i paying you but
i'm losing money because i'm taking time
away from revenue generating activities
to train you to do the thing that i'm
also paying you to do and it never and
i'm just stuck in like sort of this
treadmill that i can't get out of right
now but i mean certainly alex there has
to be some people in your

42
00:41:00.000 --> 00:42:00.000
umbrella in your company that you do
train up and those are kind of the
people that
they're like the foundation of your
company right or is it completely
objective like you can just buy
all talent when you're starting a
company depends on the nature of the
work and what you're able to pay
so for example
um like frontline work in general you're
going to get lower skilled labor and so
it becomes a competitive advantage to
have a very good training program
because then you're you're you're
getting the work done for less than the
market right so if someone comes
equipped with the skill you have to pay
the premium of them having already
acquired the skill if we have a really
robust training system uh like if you're
a door-to-door business door-to-door
sales business like solar pest control
whatever then a really big business will
pride itself on the fact that it can
take somebody off the street put them
run them through their gauntlet of
training and then on the other side
they've got a 400 000 year producer and
so it depends on the nature of the thing
that you're selling and what your
competitive advantages are yeah yeah
that makes sense i i think i've i've

43
00:42:00.000 --> 00:43:00.000
been so slow to hire simply because i
feel like i want to have a few people
that i build up and train
simply because i want them to speak rob
and no rob and write rob right and and
think think the way that i think so that
when we start hiring externally they can
then train all those people because
they've been trained by me but it's hard
it's harder than you think i mean i just
hired a ceo for my
my education brand and that was a really
big that was a really um
pride busting moment for me to to really
finally sit down and say okay
i
it's not that i was failing but i was
failing myself from a personal
standpoint of being able to
be sane and not stressed and like
fulfilling family needs and everything
like that and i really feel
just the moment that they accepted the
offer i was like oh i can finally stop
saying no to everything because anytime
i have a new idea or something new that
i want to do with my program i would
immediately say oh yeah but the
logistics on that are a headache i would

44
00:43:00.000 --> 00:44:00.000
never do it but it's a really cool thing
and i was in the meeting with my ceo
uh yesterday and there was like three
ideas that came up and i i stopped him
from riffing on it because i was like no
the logistics on that are a nightmare
and then i was like wait a minute
i don't have to worry about the
logistics it's literally your job to do
that and he's like that's right man you
tell me what i want to do what you want
me to do and i will make it happen and i
was like wow this is
now i understand why people hire people
so
um i think a lot of this came down to
like one of the reasons i chose him is
he he came from my organization he was
it paid me to for a consultation i
didn't charge him 120 000 though i think
i charged him like 150 bucks like a year
ago then he joined my program then he
joined my mastermind then he joined my
sales team and then he quit because he
was too busy working his full-time job
and i said no
wait don't quit i need i like you too
much come back and i was able to bring
him on and integrate him but one of the
reasons i think i saw him early on was
actually something that you said and
it's your philosophy on superstars i'd

45
00:44:00.000 --> 00:45:00.000
like to talk about that for a second
where when you
when you see a superstar you know it can
you tell us expand on this a little bit
it's not common and i think you get
better at recognizing it over time you
know i think the amount of people who
hear me talk about superstars and
they're like oh yeah so it says start if
i were to meet a super superstar i'd be
like i don't know that's a superstar
because you know i had a mentor who who
sold his uh business for you know
multiple b's
um and he said you know alex you have to
remember that
the best talent has yet to come
he's like the best hire you've ever made
is in the future and so it's always like
this constant raising bar um but
superstars when you find them you have
to hold on to them and you have to find
a way to now mind you the big comma here
is that as long as they do not break the
culture and you're not making exceptions
for them from a cultural basis because
that's one of the biggest issues is that
you've got this super high individual
contributor
who actually detracts and is a cancer
for the overall you know company and so
that's that's the hardest hi that's the
hardest fire to make but it's the one
you have to make
but superstars who fit within the

46
00:45:00.000 --> 00:46:00.000
culture i mean you want to give them as
much opportunities you can and support
them in their growth so that they can
grow but even then with like like the
salesman to the co move i would have
been like huh that's interesting it's a
very different character trait and very
different skill set so i'm like huh
interesting that wouldn't have been my
first guess yeah yeah well i think the
salesman thing that was definitely part
of his
i think he just wanted to be a part of
the organization and so he was willing
to do sales for me just to be like hey i
just want you to know i'm in and i had
seen him like you know that throughout
the whole journey he was kind of not not
the ground level of like the raw built
channel but pretty close to the
beginning of everything and so i was
like all right well this guy has been
around since the beginning he's had
faith in me so i'm going to have a
little bit of faith in him and honestly
i mean just in the one week that we've
started i'm already like
really i needed someone that was
uh complementary to me right because the
phrase for me that i always think about
is if we're both the same one of us is
unnecessary

47
00:46:00.000 --> 00:47:00.000
and so for me
if i i can't um i can't work with
someone who's a visionary and like has
big strategy
big ideas because that's what i have i
don't need that i need someone to
actually go and run with it yeah
so i want to kind of talk about a little
bit here can you give me your opinion on
when you're talking about scaling
what is the more difficult stage um is
it that first reaching the million
dollars is it the reaching the three or
the thirty or uh even any numbers past
that it's so difficult it's so difficult
to say which one's the hardest i would
say the heart feels different so you
know the the first the the first stage
you know zero to six zero to seven the
heart is that you don't know what the
 you're doing i don't know if i'm
allowed to cuss if i'm not then believe
me uh bleep hopefully be out it's all
good yeah you have no idea what you're
doing the biggest threat you have your
business is ignorance it's just not
knowing what the hell you're doing
that's the threat right um and that is
hard because it just you feel like
you're just flying through space and you
have no idea you're disoriented

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00:47:00.000 --> 00:48:00.000
um
once you cross like getting from a
million to three million is very
difficult
um because
you have to learn an entirely new skill
set which is like you have to hire your
first team right and that's that's very
difficult for a lot of people
um
you know three to ten is difficult
because you have to unlearn the thing
that made you successful up to this
point which is you're focusing on front
end rather than on product and back end
and so that becomes it's very difficult
it's like it's like spiritually
difficult at that point you know what i
mean once you're at three to ten you're
already out of the
like i have to work i have to cry my
face off in terms of like hours in
because at some point the amount of work
that has to get done surpasses your
ability to work which means you have to
work through other people
um you know at 10 million the difficulty
is you have to give up even more control
and so at each of these levels you're
giving up different types of control you
know in the beginning you're giving up
control of fulfillment
the next level you're giving up control
of sales then you're giving up control
of you know finances things like that
then you're giving up control of of
marketing then you're giving up control
of managing all those things then you're
giving up control of leading you know

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the company uh and so on and so forth so
like there's always this relinquishing
of control which is i would say
spiritually very difficult and it's easy
to say very hard to do and that's what
we look for in the portfolio companies
that we're thinking about taking on we
look at the ceos we're like do i think
this person has the humility to give up
control when it is required yeah david i
think you're pretty good at this i think
you're really good at finding people
that you can as you say develop them and
help
you know run the different companies
that you're that you've created what
what's been the toughest
i guess phase for you when it when it
came to scaling
i'm like i'm having a whole
psychological session with myself as i'm
listening to alex talking
to hives over there yeah like
it keeps on coming back that like every
issue i'm having in business is a
reflection or a symptom of an issue i
have with myself so like as i'm thinking
about why what he's saying makes perfect
sense why don't i do that there's this
big arrow that comes pointing at some
character flaw that i have or a fear
that i would have or uh like maybe i
don't want to commit to to being there

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every single day at eight o'clock and if
i'm going to hire this person and pay
them 300 000 i have to be just as
committed as i want them to be so
maybe alex at some point we could talk
more about like what your advice would
be but rob i'm sorry what was your
question there this is how deep i am in
psychology i know well i can already see
the the youtube title is alex hormozy
exposes david
nice nice clickbait title um i want to
know for from your standpoint what
what's been the dif most difficult stage
for you to scale in in any of your
companies was it getting to the zero to
one million mark or was it any stage
after that i think by alex's definition
here the three to thirty is where i keep
getting stuck so i i am very good at
what you said a business is just a
leveraged job you have one person a
bunch of support pieces right and i get
to where i max i cannot get any higher
than this i am doing as much as i
possibly can and then i pick the person
and i hand over a lot of my
responsibilities and then i go off and i
crush it in another thing and when i
come back i'm like ah like what happened

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and then i have to take that person out
and put a new person in and i just get
stuck in that like leap off cycle and
then i fall right back down and it's
definitely a problem with hiring like
i'm sure someone who's good at this
would look at it right away and say
you're doing it wrong but i've been
probably three years on that treadmill
yeah
you know it's an interesting concept to
think about um layla and i discussed
this a lot publicly but it's called the
hidden funnel or the missing funnel but
if you think about what has to happen to
acquire a customer right so you have to
do some sort of lead generation there's
some sort of lead nurture there's some
sort of sales uh there's some sort of
delivery and then there's some sort of
retention and then some sort of
ascension right so those are kind of
like the steps that you take through for
a customer well the same funnel exists
on the other side of the business which
is as the business grows you need to
have a funnel to acquire talent acquire
employees and so you have instead of
lead generation you have application
generation instead of lead nurture you
have application nurture so it's like
how quickly are we getting these people
booked for interviews like the best best
talent finds a job in eight days eight
days when they start the day they start
searching if your entire job hunting
process takes longer than 8 days you've
already lost all the good people right

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and then from there the sale is the
interview right and with good talent
it should be a sale right because they
should be able to be picky like if the
person that you're trying to hire
doesn't have any other opportunities do
you really want to hire them
right yeah
you know and then from there you have
the delivery which within the context of
an employee is going to be the
onboarding process of like how am i
going to acclimate you to this business
what are our culture what are our values
how do you get paid how do we do with
time off what's our compensation
philosophy what is your career path what
is your ascension blah blah blah right
all these things that have to get
covered and it takes time right like we
onboard a new like senior executive it's
going to be a month of one to two hours
a day with the executive and then
finally we have uh retention and
ascension right so it's like okay now
that we have this person they're
onboarding they're productive it's like
how do we retain them and continue to
get them motivated and then is there the
opportunity for ascension the same way
we have that with a customer and so you
really have this mirror funnel that
exists in the middle of the business
that's external versus internal but the
promotion process is the same and most
people build this front end and they
don't have a concurrent funnel that
funnels into the business to build the
infrastructure the business to support

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the leads and customers that are coming
in and ultimately that's how you're able
to scale it by having if you remember
what i said earlier there's one avatar
one product one channel we can have the
same process on the back end which is
like we have a specific avatar that
we're searching for and we have a
specific job that we have and then we
have a channel that we're looking to get
them on on a consistent basis getting
the consistency down is really what gets
you from
one-off hires to having a consistent
hiring process just like your lead
generation process right like you get
that in order to get to that point you
get comfortable with the process i
always have to be lead generating and
then you need to sort of take that same
pattern and apply it to well i'm lead
generating for talent at this point yes
yep so that's where where i've been
stuck and that's just the the challenge
i like until i can figure out what it is
in me or find the right person that can
do that for me right like there's
probably a person that is good at hiring
people that if i had someone like that
man i think i would i would 10x pretty
quickly that's and just any last advice
there oh yeah and i was just gonna say
like and that's why for us within within
our firm like
the only thing that we keep in-house is

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recruiting because at least for me i
think about the highest leverage ways
because like if i were to do anything
us as a hold code do anything for the
portfolio companies actually doing this
rather than advice in addition to
uh recruiting
that means that that company becomes
less sellable in the future because then
hold code have to go with it right it
has to sit within the enterprise for the
value to be created right in the
enterprise value itself and so the most
efficient way of us doing that is for us
to hire and find that talent which is
what we can do with our reputation our
reach etc that's it our you know
competitive advantage and we can bring
the all-star into the business and then
now the values being created on a
consistent basis the problem's been
solved for good and then that value sits
inside of the enterprise which then
makes everybody more money later i want
to take a slightly different approach to
what we're talking about and get your
opinion on something
i'm writing a book for bigger pockets
right now and i think it's going to be
called pillars but the basic concept is
instead of trying to find out how to buy
a bunch of real estate without acquiring
any skills or without having any money
why don't you just solve the problem of
why you're broke right get your spending

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00:54:00.000 --> 00:55:00.000
under control get a budget right here's
some tools to do that
get good at making money because that's
actually something that is possible to
do especially in america so there's
defense offense and then you invest the
difference and that will be the part on
investing in this look i'm i'm trying
thank you i'm trying to
come up with uh
advice for people who are not making
enough money in their job
because as what i noticed is as we
talked to people like you the constant
problem is how do i get talent how do i
get someone to do a good job how do i
it's not like we're holding people down
saying i don't want to pay you more
money we're desperately looking for
these leads of people that can help our
business and then you've got a whole
population of people that are saying i
want to make more money there is a huge
disconnect that's happening here so do
you have any advice either for me that i
can put in the book or for the people
who are listening who are not happy with
how well they're doing for what they can
do to actually bring more value to their
employer and make more money yeah so i
think everyone needs to turn off their
their their
their 19 year old finance expert guru

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and stop trying to you know invest in
the s p 500 and invest in the s 500
right they should be putting every
dollar they have into themselves rather
than an index because i can promise you
if they put a thousand dollars into
themselves they're going to make more
than 100 a year off that increase in
skills and so the biggest issue that
most people have is they don't have the
ability to discern what their missing
link is or what their next step is
what's the if you think about the theory
of constraints which is that a system
will grow until it's constrained and so
what happens is most people add
potential to a system but they don't
actually increase the throughput of the
system so for example if i had a a
bridge right and it has a weak link
in the bridge or let's say a chain is
probably simpler so if you have a chain
and you have to pull two things the
amount of force that you can put on the
chain is just predicated based on the
weakest leg and so what happens is that
people reinforce a strong link and not
the weak link in the chain and so they
add potential to the chain but they
don't actually add any more strength
that can be pulled and so if you think
about the amount of money you're trying
to make as up as a amount of money that
you're literally trying to pull towards
you that weak link
is going to be the skill deficiency that
you have and so most people solve
problems that aren't really there and

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they spend a lot of their time
reinforcing skills that they enjoy but
that's not their deficiency and so
that's why like the entrepreneurship
thing is you have to be a jack of all
trades master of done you have to be
good enough to get the thing across
across the finish line to pull you know
pull the money towards you uh you don't
have to have the strongest length you
just need all the links to be strong
enough and so i think most people aren't
good at assessing their own deficiencies
and so if the follow-up question is how
do you assess deficiencies
right how do you know what's what's
missing
the question is
what are the revenue generating
activities within a business how can i
get myself closer to those revenue
generating activities um and so you can
look at product as a revenue generating
activity you can look at sales and
revenue generating activity you can look
at marketing is rather generating
activity and so if you think about those
as kind of the three core pillars of
what businessing is and then you have
back of house right you've got finance
you've got i.t you've got uh the other
pieces but the people who ascend even in
the back office know how to generate
revenue
and bottom line
for
for their division so for example my cfo
uh suzanne chiflett she um you know she
led a 15 billion dollar acquisition uh 5

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billion of 1 billion the last company
she was out with 750 million she's been
dollar one to 100 million two times so
like she's she's been there
and the first thing she did on our like
our first interview is like oh you won't
have to pay for me i was like and she's
paid very well
um and she's like you don't have to pay
for me she's like i'll save i'll save
more than what you're ever going to pay
me just first six months i'll save you
that i was like oh
cool and so smart people know how to do
that like like a an intelligent you know
video editor is going to come and say
dude i can 10x the amount of views that
you're getting on this thing because
he's going to tie himself to marketing a
good product person is going to say i
can i can decrease our churn which is
going to increase your ltv i'm going to
be able to get more people to ascend
because they have a higher mps score and
they're more likely to want to keep
buying from us like so they have to just
figure out a way to tie whatever the
thing if they're really passionate about
something by all means go all in on if
you're i.t then you're thinking how can
i decrease page load times how can i get
conversion rates up you start getting
into the cro side how can i organize the
data in such a way that the ceo can make
better decisions and we have real-time
reporting against all the sales guys so

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we can optimize our funnels towards the
best converting guys right like all of
all aspects of the business can make
more money but people don't think about
it through that lens so the first thing
is how do i tie what i do every day to
making more money in the business you
connect that dot and then you improve
that connection let me ask if i
understand your your chain link analogy
there because i thought that was really
good and i also love what you said is
like solve a problem for somebody bring
value to them and you're paying your own
salary you can name your own price if
you're making or saving the company that
money i did a ted talk about building
skills and in it i described how when i
was you wouldn't think it from looking
at me now but i used to be incredibly
skinny like i was very insecure i was a
bean pull six foot uh one and like 150
pounds it was terrible and so it was
just a challenge for me to get to the
gym at all i just was working out next
to meat heads and i hated how how it
felt and i was trying to work out my gym
launch man
exactly exactly we didn't have that back
then alex uh i was trying to work out my
arm because that was the biggest area of
insecurity that i would have i would
wear like extra long t-shirts because i

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don't want people to see how skinny my
arms are so i'm doing these curls and i
and i realized i can't even get a bicep
workout because my wrists would get
tired before that muscle would like the
muscles in my wrist were not strong
enough to do it and then i finally got
my wrist strong and i had that same
problem with my forearms they would burn
too much and i couldn't get to the bicep
so i had this like process where i had
to strengthen individual links in that
chain before i got to the actual
freaking biceps so i could work it out
am i is that close to what you're
describing that people have with their
own personal skills that they're maybe
they they want to get to this part in
bringing value but they've got these
weak links they have to strengthen
before they get there like
it's a perfect analogy the one that you
had it's a perfect analogy and as a
total side note because rob you're in
the in the education space like one of
the big things that people there's a big
misconception which is that one product
or one course or one coaching thing or
one mastermind is going to be their
messiah it's going to be the one thing
that sets them off and the thing is is
that the testimonials that anybody
receives is not purely because of the of
the program that they have and that's

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hard for a lot of educators to take on
because they want to take they want to
take they want to take responsibility
for everyone's success but the thing is
if you take responsibility for
everyone's success you have to also take
responsibility for everyone's failures
and so i think that a realistic approach
is probably better like you didn't teach
the person how to read you didn't teach
the person in arithmetic you didn't
teach them multiplication and so
education sits atop foundations and so a
lot of times and this is this is for
everyone who's listening to this who is
who's going through educational programs
and they haven't made money yet
the point is to get is to make progress
and the hardest part in the beginning of
entrepreneurship is ignorance and you
have to pay down the time tax of
ignorance as fast as you can and so you
pay down that time tax of ignorance
through education and the thing is is
that if you are fortifying different
aspects of the chain if there is a link
that is literally missing
until let's say there's let's say
there's 30 pieces of the chain that have
to get built for us to pull a certain
amount of money towards us all right
just for to keep the analogy parallel
if there's 30 links the first course you
take might give you 20 of them right but
you didn't make money and so that person
then said they shake their fist at the

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guy and say screw that guy he took my
money but you're 20 links out of 30.
right and then you take another thing
because you at least accurately identify
what was wrong and you get another eight
links now you get two links and then you
go to this next final guy and he gives
you the last two links that you need and
then you're like this guy's the messiah
this guy's the stuff i did two other
programs i didn't get any results right
the thing is is that you were measuring
you were measuring based on outputs not
on impacts and you were measuring based
on how much money you would make rather
than how much work you were doing on you
and so i think if people can make that
shift based on them being the investment
that they are making then they will
always see the return and then it
obviously focuses more on the process
and the outcome and if you can do that
because i can tell you for me personally
um
you know
how because i get asked a lot and
hopefully it comes off the right way
like how did you move so quickly because
we're 32 years old across 100 million
net worth last year um and we get asked
this question all the time and it was
because
we always took 100 as much of the excess
cash that we had and just plowed it into
education it was all about how can i how
can i have more

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i mean my goal in life was to be wise
when i was really young i was like i
want to be wise and wisdom is seeing is
seeing what other people cannot say
right and so it's it's understanding the
circumstances and having to discernment
to see what is true and what is not and
so if we look at why you're not doing
well in business it's being able to
properly discern and identify what those
problems are and you only get that
through repetition you get that through
experience you get that through mentors
and people who have more contacts than
you who can breathe into your life and
so anyways i'm very passionate about
that and so i just think that a lot of
people do the education industry at a
service because they they go to college
and four years later with a spanish
degree they can barely speak spanish and
then they take one course and they're
like i'm not a millionaire and if it's
if it's hard then that's what makes it
worth doing
like if it were easy it wouldn't be
worth doing
you wouldn't even want it if it were
easy that dude that is so true i feel
like the education space
gets poo poo'd on a little too much
especially for all the legitimate people
out there teaching stuff and it's like
i i the way i say it is i've learned it
the hard way so you can learn it the
easy way but the bad news is is that you

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still have to put in a lot of hard work
for it to work out it's not it's not
hard but it is hard work a lot of the
time
in real estate you know it is hard to if
you're really getting started but i like
that you said
ignore the 19 year old finance bros
because i do feel like that is the thing
i actually got interviewed for a podcast
or for a youtube video about a month ago
and it was a buddy of mine and he was
asking a bunch of millionaires hey
if you're talking to someone just
getting started how would you recommend
investing a thousand dollars and every
single one was like s p 500 i would
think like solana or like bitcoin i was
like um yeah and i was like you're not
going to make any money on education
sorry you're not going to make any money
really that's like life changing with a
thousand dollars in a stock investment
invest in education buy a thousand
dollar course or two 500 course and
learn a skill that allows you to make
more money maybe it's video editing
maybe it's
i don't know amazon real estate whatever
it is i don't really care but learn

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01:04:00.000 --> 01:05:00.000
empower yourself give yourself knowledge
and use that to make more money because
at the end of the day starting out the
thousand dollars i mean while some
people have done it and become
billionaires from it i'm sure
it's not something i mean you know you
get you got to get real lucky with a
thousand dollars on like a bitcoin call
or something like that to make a ton of
money so i always say go learn and that
is what's going to make you the money
not necessarily like a like a tiny
little investment in in my opinion 100
of
anyone's money especially sub 30
should be invested in only one thing
which is increasing their earning
capacity that's it is increasing your
earning capacity so much so that you
cannot spend the money that is coming in
and then and only then when you
literally can't find places to spend the
money on education which is why i get so
excited to spend 130 grand you know uh
to further for the calls with with grant
or
anything i've done that a number of
times twenty five thousand dollars a
call i've paid plenty of those types of
calls and they've always returned and
the constant is that you have to be
willing to work and if you have the
belief which i do which is that i always

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want to be the best student so if i go
into somebody's program i will say if
someone else can then so can i and then
i will do whatever they did and do a
little bit more and so or a lot more and
that way i can always because if it
worked for one other person then it
means it can work for me
and so like i've always had that as a
deep-seated belief at least it's served
me well and maybe maybe it'll serve the
audience um i know i went on a quick
tangent with that but um
really lights me up because it's like
what i what i care about i'll give you a
quick example because i think it'll
drive this home so a friend of mine has
a daughter she's 17 years old she got a
job at a bowling alley and she was
making minimum wage i think it's like
7.50 whatever and um he's like why don't
you just uh get a phlebotomy
certification it's a weekend and you
immediately make 25 an hour right
and so people think about that i'm like
guys it's 500 in two days it's a weekend
to get a phlebotomy certification and
forever she will have three and a half
extra earning capacity for the rest of
her life and so if you take that same
thousand dollars and put it in the s p
maybe it goes up ten percent maybe it
goes up twenty five percent because

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that's a crazy year right well cool you
have two hundred 250 extra you can have
250 extra per week
just by investing in that one thing
where you get a 50x return or 100x
return right and then you take that
excess to your point david right and you
say okay phlebotomy is this skill is
there another skill i can stack on top
of this maybe it's project management or
management skills in general and i can
manage 50 phlebotomists right like it's
just it's it's leveraging it's leveling
up the skill set and the opportunity
vehicle that we're pursuing so i could
be a blender tender you know what i mean
at a smoothie shop right or i could be a
manager a little bit better probably
still not a good vehicle or i could own
a smoothie shop or i could own the
franchise of all the smoothie shops like
it's all just degrees of leverage and
acquiring the skill set are required and
just as long as you know what the path
looks like then you can ask the question
what do i lack that that person has and
i think that's usually the one of the
more valuable questions rather than envy
and and point in casting stones about
why someone's ahead of you and why they
they were cheap and you're actually a
really virtuous person and they must be
doing something negative to be ahead of
you maybe they're just better than you

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and if you can at least admit that and
have the humility to do so then you can
create the deficit that you can then
solve i love it man i i think what
you're saying right now has the ability
to change lives more than almost
anything else that could be
said and it it hits right at the core of
like you are actually in charge of your
own success if you take the
responsibility for building skills you
just don't hear people talk about how
important it is to have skills like you
get that napoleon dynamite complex right
girls like guys that have skills i don't
have any skills
but that's what that's what will put you
in the position of empowerment it's not
the next get-rich-quick scheme it's not
some clever marketer telling you could
have a ferrari like me if you do this
type of a thing like what you're trying
to do when you're taking these courses
or educating yourself really is building
skills and i think like you take anyone
you put them in a jamba juice and
they're the blender tender and they take
the right approach and then they learn
how to become a shift manager and then
from there they learn how to manage the
other people and then they get put in
charge of hiring and then they're
looking at company books and well we can
increase revenue if we sell a cinnamon
bun with every smoothie or whatever

69
01:08:00.000 --> 01:09:00.000
you're actually building skills that
then they say let me put you in charge
of the whole jamba juice let me put you
in charge of my other five jamba juices
now you learn how to franchise and you
can buy a i mean that's literally kind
of what you did yeah and this is the key
to making it
it's like and for everyone's always like
i don't know where to start
start with the money
watch where the money goes how does the
money come in the door like you just
have to watch the path of the money
like from it click to close cradle to
grave so how does this person find out
about whatever business you're working
in like ask those questions like that is
fundamentally what the understanding of
business is is understanding how do i
monetize raw attention how do i get raw
attention how do i attract it towards me
how do i convert that attention and
exchange goods for goods and services
four dollars right how do i get that
good and service person to come back and
spend more money right like if you know
what that path of the money looks like
and that's where you can ask i remember
when i actually was a smoothie blender
tender because that's why i used to
accept because i was born i remember i
and if you're like man i haven't thought
about that it's okay neither did i you

70
01:09:00.000 --> 01:10:00.000
know i mean like i worked for two years
at at a smoothie store and every day i
would i would look at the total sales i
would add it up and i never actually
thought about i never once multiplied it
out to see what the monthly revenue was
it was just numbers to me like i didn't
i didn't care it just didn't matter i
just came in and clocked out but like
i'm telling you now sitting where i'm at
if i can if i can save you that time
follow the money if you can follow the
money and get yourself closer to the
money you will become more valuable and
if you don't know how to get close to
the money ask and most business owners
even if they're not
most business owners even if they are
small business owners will know a little
bit more than you and in that you can
learn yeah do you think the uh the owner
of smoothie king told the owner of jama
juice hey man you can't do smoothies or
else we can't be friends
they probably aren't friends
but probably when they were starting out
but now it's you know both those
companies are you know multiple decades
old
you know who knows but yeah i mean
that's it's it's funny though because
like ed said it's like the 20 year i
can't wait to get like the 30 or 40 year
club because i mean you think about a

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01:10:00.000 --> 01:11:00.000
guy who's you know you're 65 plus years
old do you see that guy like
shaking his fist at the other no of
course not like he's old right it's like
and so if you're going to be that way
eventually why not be that way now i
agree i think i'm i could be i'm
competitive in my own respect but like
i've had friends that have started
similar things in me and they've come to
me and they're like hey i just wanted to
i wanted to bring it up like is it okay
if i like if i do this i don't i'm like
dude i didn't invent airbnb
or short-term rental i didn't invent
investing in this city i didn't invent
this concept you can do whatever you
want because i got nothing to gain from
being competitive with like
friends in the space right we can only
help each other grow there's a lot of
people
right on
and you also get into like
psychographics which is kind of
interesting if you're a mass market
thing like you know anyone can do airbnb
short-term rentals right so
somebody might be attracted to you
someone might be attracted to me someone
being like attracted david some people
might be attracted to layla so like not
only do you have demographic differences
in terms of like who's the avatar that
we're marketing to but like
psychographic we have different values
we stand for different things and so
people are just naturally going to just

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say like i want this flavor of airbnb
even though the actual mechanics might
be the same it's just i want this flavor
because i just prefer this community i
prefer these values this is more my five
which is fine you know really appreciate
you sharing your experience here alex
this is like legit really gold
information that i think can change
lines for lives for those that have ears
to hear please listen to this one again
let it sink into your heart ask yourself
those tough questions because this will
get you more money than you would need
and investing in real estate becomes a
lot easier when you have a lot of
capital to go do it all right we're
going to move on to the last segment of
the show this is the world famous famous
four
in this segment of the show we ask every
guest the same for questions we will
take turns firing them off at you
question number one alex what is your
favorite
real estate related book
crushing it with real estate apartments
wow i i'm impressed you had a book to
say there i was thinking you might be
like i don't do real estate i do
business so you're gonna say the burr
book since you've read it before yeah
i've read i've read probably five real
estate books um
and that one is really good it was
really well written the guy didn't sell

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01:12:00.000 --> 01:13:00.000
anything i was like i like he had a
really cool that's brian murray right i
can't remember the author name but i
think it's right black with a red yeah
it's black with the red thing that's him
yeah he partnered with my former co-host
of this brandon turner uh brian is now
the partner with him in his company odc
they buy mobile home parks super cool
yeah yeah and it was a good book okay
question number two what is your
favorite business book
for what stage in business for someone
just uh struggling with scaling how
about that struggling with scaling i
think ready fire aim by uh
what's his pen name mike masterson it's
mark ford
um who's the who's the co-founder of
agora uh which is a direct response
giant they do i think a billion a year
uh so he's he has a book that goes all
the way up you said it was uh ready fire
aim ready fire him okay yeah he talks
about the transitions in business
between each of those levels too okay
great i always uh write down these books
whenever people say it with the
aspirations to read them one day so got

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01:13:00.000 --> 01:14:00.000
it on the list i'll give you i'll give
you a flip side one um any of the books
by patrick lincione he talks about
operations and fundamentally like that's
why most if you're talking scaling right
it's people and so that those books are
fables so they're really light reads you
can read them in one sitting
and they really teach really important
lessons the the book called the motive
um
changed my life uh and is what got me to
break through the that plus you know i
was in a big reading mode because i just
felt stuck at in the mid 30s
but i couldn't couldn't get through and
that was among the books that most
deeply most profoundly shifted how i
acted as an entrepreneur awesome man
question number three
when you're not out there building 100
million dollar gym empires uh what are
some of your hobbies
i don't have many
i work out i work
and i eat that's most of most of what i
do actually this is very topical because
i am somewhat known in on the internet
as the chipotle guy
and then i recently saw that you
posted you ate at chipotle 500 times in

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01:14:00.000 --> 01:15:00.000
a year one time which is that actually
does put me to shame and embarrassed me
that i haven't done that before
yeah
yeah i did uh because i was a single guy
and so it was way more efficient for me
money
like the amount of time it takes to
grocery shop prep cook clean et cetera
um it was way easier for me to just get
chipotle twice a day and the end of the
day chipotle was easy because it didn't
detract from work so the only thing i
really had to do was the lunch chipotle
and i didn't eat breakfast so i would
just go nothing bowl nothing bowl and
that was all i ate i didn't even have
anything in my fridge besides egg whites
coke zero red bull and johnny walker
black label it makes sense though
because when you're making a certain
amount of money it might be a 20 000
lunch that you just say if you had to go
to the grocery store and you had to shop
and you had to come cook your food so
that makes a lot of sense
all right last question from me in your
opinion what sets apart successful
entrepreneurs from those who give up
fail or never get started the ability to
deal with short-term discomfort for
long-term achievement that comes from
everything it's like if you literally
boil success down in any field it's just

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01:15:00.000 --> 01:16:00.000
the ability to endure short-term
discomfort for long-term achievement
whether you want to lose weight whether
you want to have a good marriage whether
you want to have a you know be a good
leader whether you want to have a
six-pack whether you want to make money
it's like you have to be willing to
endure a short-term sacrifice for a
long-term achievement okay that is very
good because me and david are currently
both working on our six packs so
it really took this one to heart um i'm
starting with the four pack first you
know
got some
got to get a way to go there um okay and
then last one for alex uh where can
people find out more about you or what
you're doing uh all all on the internet
uh i have a podcast called the game so
uh you can just search the game on any
place that you listen to podcasts
spotify apple all that jazz
stitcher all the weird ones we're on all
of them now um that's that's the best
thing if you like videos we have a
pretty big youtube channel and
we're on all the social medias so just
search my name alex ramos and you should
find me go do it everybody go subscribe
to his youtube channel yeah i i don't
know i haven't i've said this i watch
your channel it's been really cool to

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01:16:00.000 --> 01:17:00.000
see you blow up man you're like the
youtube poster child for all
entrepreneurs out there so very much
appreciate all the content that you put
out there uh david what about you man
where can people find you online at
davidgreen24 on youtube at davidgreen
real estate and on biggerpockets
everywhere so you can message me on
there if you have any questions for me
rob how about you you can find me on on
the youtubes at rawbilt on instagram at
raw built and then if you want to see me
do crazy little cute dances on
tick-tocking find me at rawbilto
alex last question i lied i have one
more question for you how long do you
anticipate we have to endure before we
stop having to look at the little like
tick tock pointing at bubbles thing i'm
i'm losing my mind every time i see
these now yeah it's really interesting
because like i you know we've grown a
decent amount i think we started
september of last year so we're almost
coming in on a year i think we've grown
400 000 or something like that as of
today um in that period of time from
zero and i didn't do any dances ever and
so i think people
people look at
you know because it was musically before
this so it made sense that there was a

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01:17:00.000 --> 01:18:00.000
little bit more dancing kind of in the
like that embedded in the culture of it
but fundamentally it's not a dancing app
it's a short-form video app and so i
think it's just about whether you can
deliver value in an entertaining way in
60 seconds or less and so
you know the dancing is just like a non
like when i see business people or like
lawyers doing dances of like five things
you need before you do a deal it's like
due diligence and like i just
the internet i mean like you know you
don't need a dancing point just talk to
like about the five things and how you
do it and keep it under 60 seconds and
you've got a tick tock you know what i
mean and so um i i think it's people
misunderstanding the platform and this
is by no means me being some social
media expert but just at least my
understanding of as it currently stan as
it currently is it's just like it's just
short for a video and then you just know
that there's a slightly different demo
there and trying to cater it a little
bit more like my general things about
marriage and food and
fitness tend to do better than my
business stuff but it's also probably
because the audience in general is a
little bit younger probably um but it'll
age up you know in five years they'll
all be starting their businesses and
hopefully you know they'll be able to
get some value from it did you hear that
people you don't have to dance and point

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01:18:00.000 --> 01:19:00.000
at bubbles that have a little piece of
please share this video make it go viral
get out collectively we can end this
horrible trend that
makes me want to poke my own eye out
every single time i see these things and
i think it might be a realtor thing i
follow a lot of realtors and there are a
lot of real oh that's that's what i'm
supposed to do
i'm gonna i'm gonna start making
exclusively that content and then
tagging both of you in it
now you will too all right alex thank
you very much man we really appreciate
you we're gonna let you get out of here
rob i know you love when i do this any
last words before we go no man no no
final words other than thanks for coming
on and uh
i
watch all your tick tocks there you go
appreciate you guys thank you so much
for having me in to the audience i hope
you were able to get you know some
return on your attention i know that's
all of our hopes so thank you so much
thank you alex this is david for rob the
dancing tic toc machine abba solo
signing off
[Music]

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01:19:00.000 --> 01:20:00.000
you

